Whenever I have a problem, I go straight to my 81 year old mother. Not that she is EVER any help - as I have to repeat gems of the problematic storyline over and over to her and she never fully 'gets it'.
By the time I'm fully vented out, I'm too frustrated with what she has to say anyway. The advice is always the same: "As long as you have love, you have everything!"
Of course, she's right. I'm lucky that I have an amazing husband after breaking records for being the "longest-single-living-in-search-of-love" woman on earth. I did wonder how I made it through my problems and was happy (most of the time) when I didn't have 'love' in my life.
When Mom recently spun her words of wisdom to me, I agreed with her, but wondered: What about the Single Bubbies out there? How do they get through their problems if they don't have love?
Immediately, she responded that love doesn't come just through having a husband or wife. "You can love your home, where you live, what you do. You can love your things or your pets. You can love your life. Love is everywhere!"
Immediately, I wanted to pass this along to all my single friends. Life is worth living if we have love and everyone has something/someone to love. Our problems are unimportant as long as we have love in our lives.
Two nights ago, I was watching a movie: "Year of the Dog". The heroine didn't have a husband, but became an animal activist. The movie ended with this soliloquy:
"I wish I was a more articulate person. I believe life is magical. It is so precious. And there are so many kinds of love in this life. So many things to love. The love for a husband or a wife, a boyfriend or girlfriend. The love for children. The love for yourself. And even material things. This is my love. It is mine. And it fills me and defines me. And it compels me on."
I had no idea. I guess my Mother gets it a lot more than I ever had or could. I think I'll call her.
Monday, April 26, 2010
Thursday, April 15, 2010
Dating Age Differences/discrimination
This post comes from the DearBubbie Facebook Page. Feel free to comment as well.
DearBubbie
The Topic is Age Discrimination in Dating. Why do the older men (and some who will lie) ONLY date younger women? Women, have you ever been a cougar and how did it work out? Men, what are/were your age restrictions?
__________________________________________________________________
Jeff
Simple instinct, having to do with reproduction.
Janet
I've had relationships with a few men who were younger than I. Even married one of them. While I would not have considered myself a cougar (I was in my 20's, and another time 40), none of those relationships lasted. The men were too immature, and didn't get where I was coming from (experience-wise). Have also dated men 10 years older than myself, and that didn't last, either. I like them older by about 5 years, and am happily married to one. HOWEVER-I've also seen relationships where the woman is old enough to be the guy's mother, and it has worked out well. I think this is just a matter of personal preference. As for the men who only date much younger women, I have questions about just how in-depth their relationships are. Remember 'Shallow Hal'?
Janet
Exactly, Jeff. If it's all about sex (reproduction), how deep is their relationship? BTW-good to see you comment on here!
Jen
From someone who spent 7 years madly in love with a man almost 21 years older, I can tell you that our relationship was very "in-depth". Granted he was perhaps the most vain person I've known...but that doesn't change the connection we shared. NOW, however...I want younger...does that make me a cougar? Same age, a few years younger, it's all good.
Karis
Okay ~ been a cougar. Didn't work so well with the man that lied about his age to appear older (who the hell wants to be OLDER?). There was a 19-year age difference. I don't think the age difference would have been such a factor if he hadn't lied about it. RED FLAG from the get go. As others started hoisting themselves up, I was done.Almost all the other men in Italy I've dated have been younger than I am ~ anywhere from 4-8 years. I don't count that as being a cougar though. My long-term relationship in the US was with a man 11 years older than I am. So I've had both experiences.The most important to me in a relationship is not age but common values, morals, interests. Things that actually sustain a relationship. I've met young men that are years ahead of themselves and I've met older men that don't have a Fu@king clue ~ go figure! It's a jungle out there...for the cougars, the bears, the lions and the apes!!
DearBubbie
I asked a FB male friend to comment on this topic, since he was actually angry with me for not wanting to date someone as old as he was. He only dates YOUNG YOUNG women - and they go for it. He's intelligent and charming, has 'some' money, but I was NEVER attracted. I don't know where the attraction is and these women that he did date are attractive and intelligent.
DearBubbie
I remember getting involved with a man 17 years my junior. I felt kind of embarrassed. And I kept thinking when I was OLDER, how people might think he was my SON. Fortunately, he dumped me after a VERY short amount of time. Whew!
Janet
Yes, Jen.....you two did have a wonderful relationship, and it showed. You, however, are exceptional. You are mature, and highly intelligent, and self sufficient. So-it worked for you. I am talking about the very young women who idolize the older man, thinking.....wisdom, experience, someone to look out after and provide for them. And-what's wrong with that even? Personal preference.
Chris
I prefer a man a little older than me. Men that I have dated that have been the same age or younger I have always found to be too immature for my taste. However on the flip side I have dated men that have been quite a bit older that still don't know the first thing about maturity. I , like Jen had a 5 year relationship with someone 25 plus years my senior and we had a great relationship with a lot in common as long as I was catering to his every need. Selfish like her experience. Bubbie, the attraction I think was the charm and looks and the sense that he had some stability to offer. It was after my divorce from a man that made me feel very insecure about his safety and our future together. It was never about the money, as I was too stubborn to let him "pay my way" for anything. The only thing I would accept monetary wise was a trip every year that he wanted us to go on. I did not have the savings for those kinds of trips but I did have the funds from the sale of my restaurant to take a few weeks off every year. And it was my intent to stay with this man through sickness and health. We owned 2 homes together and I was a part of his daughter's life and the life of his 3 Grandchildren in Sarasota.
Jealousy reared it's ugly head with him, not over another man, but over my love of horses. He made me choose... I don't do well with ultimatums and he didn't either! Yes, there were other differences, but none of them had to do with age!My husband now is 12 years older than me and I had to figure out the age difference this morning again as I never keep it in mind. We have many hobbies that we share and a few of our own. I feel like we share everything and feel safe with him and trust him 100 percent.So older, younger, or the same age is a matter of your preference. Don't worry about how others look at your relationship. They never know the whole story, only what they see from the outside. Listen to your mind first, then your heart. My only warning from experiences of my own is for woman in age range of 18-early 20's. You have the rest of your life to live your life for a man as a wife or as a Mom. Don't rush into any relationship until you have had the time to grow yourself. If a man won't support your decision to go to school or build your career before a full time relationship/marriage with him at an early age, then he probably is very selfish. You have the rest of your life! And if he really loves you, he will be there for you. Not that marriage and Motherhood at a young age are a bad thing if that is your ultimate goal.
I have several friends that were married young and are still happy 20/30 years later, and in the case of my Grandparents, 70 years later! But if you have always wanted a certain career or a college degree, or to ride across the US by motorcycle or sail around the world or volunteer as a missionary, DO IT FIRST! It will make your future relationships much stronger knowing that you didn't change your dreams for another man or for a woman. (Goes both ways here!)
Susan
I don't have much experience in this area, as I have only dated men within five years of my age, and I've been married for almost 25 years... BUT I will tell you that I work in the health care field (I am an acupuncturist), and these older men that are with younger women have the worst lower back problems I've ever seen, lol! They get treated, feel better, then they go home and get their energy drained that night and return with the pain. It's kind of funny that they just won't see this, and when I attempt to discuss it with them there's usually a pretty solid wall. From a purely physiological perspective, younger men match up much better energetically with older women. But our society doesn't really go for that theory!
Chris
Again, I wish Susan had her practice in Sarasota while I was living there and with an older man! LOL!!By the way, my first husband and I were the same age. I don't think I mentioned that. He was a very good person and a hard worker, but we just were not on the same page, at all! I should have seen it earlier, but I followed the heart, not the head!! And I did my best to make it work, and give him time, but remember that people should not change for us. They need to grow and change for themselves.
David
I have dated much younger women by up to 17 years my junior. I was up front about my age, and the age difference.I received a few remarks as to cradle robber, and the rolling of eyes from others. I did not actively seek these younger women out, they approached me. And true I could have said "NO"... I had on call me a few years back, and express that she wished she would have gotten to know me as a person, and not just for sex. I have dated older women also, I had one that was a RN, who was a widow 12 years my senior. Her deceased husband was a Doctor, she offered me what ever I wanted, but I was not for sale and just didn't feel right. Some can be very mature for their age, and some older ones can be very childish.
Susan
LOL Chris - I would have been happy to help! I just want to add that ANY age can be right for someone, as long as it's the right person. I try never to judge about what someone believes in... :)
Chris
And Bubbie, to address the issue of an older man that will ONLY date much, much younger women. He probably has some hangups of his own. And for someone to actually get mad at you for not accepting a date because of his age tells me YES, he has a issue, or two or maybe three?? There is no such thing as a perfect age in a mate. It has nothing to do with the calendar people!!
Jennifer
That's funny Susan. I'm dating a guy 6 yrs younger than me and the only time i feel old is when he talks about rappers with my kids that I have never heard of! Oh, and also when I see my gray hair, wrinkles, fat body, etc... Other than that, it's fine!
David
Very true Chris! As long as both are comfortable and compatible.
Anastashia
In my humble opinion; in general men are attracted to younger women first on a visual level. It also helps that in most cases a younger woman is willing to work harder to make the relationship last, vs. women of a certain age have more on their plate and can't spend every waking minute focused on every move their man is making.
Alisa
When it comes right down to it though, it depends on the emotional maturity of both parties, if the Maggie May/cub partnership works. If it rocks your world, does it really matter what anyone else thinks? It is your life; you are the one who decides how it is going to be lived. You just have to live with the consequences of those choices, good or bad. I’m the only one of my siblings that married someone older than themselves – so I guess cougar runs in the family….then again, I am at an age where even the younger men are older. LOL!To answer your question – and I am generalizing here guys! : Men look to procreate, women look for the best provider – it is a simple analogy but it rings true. We are just genetically built that way. Men don’t stop to consider their age as they hunt for the next partner to put the babymaker to. If it is offering, he’s likely taking. That’s how they are made. Procreate. The younger women, more likely to reproduce that say yes, are also following their inherited trait - find provider. If the older man appears interested, she is likely to use her attributes, to entice him to provide her with an evening, weekend, life that she would not alternately have. She can’t help it; she’s just drawn that way. IF I WERE A SINGLE WOMAN -------I would certainly not let age define my relationships; that said I prefer someone closer in age. I like confidence in a man, younger men often feel they have something to prove still and that can become tiresome. There is a lot of bravado in young men, a false confidence. There is something about a man who just knows; and that comes from ripening over the years. I don’t like to be with someone who hasn’t had enough life experiences to be interesting and thought provoking. I don’t want to be a teacher, nor a babysitter in my relationships. I did that with my children. If I was just looking for a sexual fling, then a younger man would be ideal – energy, enthusiasm, tight abs (smirk) and then it would be over. Ya-yas would be taken care of, no obligation to linger……. They would also be lovely arm candy for those social events that you don’t have a regular date for, so you can make your girlfriends and acquaintances drool. (okay, that was put in there for humour. Sort of. It would also be very difficult to socialize with a younger man’s friends, who are often younger still…..Think how awkward it would be, to feel like the parent at a party the younger partner invites you too? Yuck! Of course, the delicious whispers that would travel through YOUR own social circle as you introduced a cub to the gang, would be fun…for a while. (hee hee)
David
Great comment Alisa.
Sandy
I married my husband of almost 17 years when he was 24 and I was 33. We have a son that is 15 and amazing! I wouldn't change a thing. We are STILL each other's "arm candy" and it will always be that way! I still consider myself one of the "original" cougars and I love it! I say do what makes you happy. Age is a number not a prerequisite!
Sandy
That's so true, Sandy.. I love the two of you, and always thought that you belong together. I know everyone used to tease you about cradle robbing, but most of them are divorced now, lol! (not really laughing, though :) )
Jen
Thank you Janet! I think it helped that my husband did not at all LOOK 20+ years older than me...nor did he act it, and he thought it was funny and was flattered when people thought we were father/daughter. I'm going to add though that I have since dated other older men (20 or so years) that think they can "own" you based on either their money or their experience/wisdom. Who needs that? I think a younger man would be wonderfully rejuvenating! Just like kids keep you young..maybe that's a bad comparison, but I'm thinking somebody younger than me would not be jaded or cynical or have so much baggage? I'm curious though, what exactly IS a cougar...cause I don't want to be one!
Sandy
Thanks Sue! I love you guys too. I appreciate the thumbs up.When you belong together and you know it,working on it just comes naturally♥
Chris
My favorite George Strait song... It just comes Naturally. It is my ringtone when my husband calls.
Sandy
I love it !
Karis
Alisa ~ as always ~ great comments for us all :)
Alisa
Re: multiple dating... Dating and bedding are different animals. Get to know as many as you want, choose wisely who you bed! Unless there is the expectation of exclusivity from one of them, then date away. You'll find the one who is special to your heart and then you will stop the others right quick!
Michael
Historically, I never had "age restrictions" on the women I was attracted to or dated.However, I did have "maturity qualifications" and "drama-free" requirements.
Jen
Can somebody please define "cougar"?
Alisa
Woman over 35 who likes to date men younger, usually much younger and makes no excuses for it
DearBubbie
Sandy - that's a great story! Great comments!
Rebecca
I dated a wonderful vital energetic man who was a Leo with great hair--and he was 23 years older than me. At the time I was 36. I remember thinking at the time. well, are you crazy about him anyway? And the answer was YES! He never pretended to be anything other than the age he was...but there were serious INTIMACY issues...not sex...about allowing women to be close. Turns out he was in a repetitious pattern...after 5 years of crazymaking, I had to go...
Maureen
So, here I am back in the dating world after 18 years of togetherness. I am so new to this dating thing that I am bound to make some mistakes, hit a few bumps but always keeping in mind to give myself a break should I bed with the wrong fella. I only have the right intentions towards a man, no matter what their age, I am all about attraction, can they keep me laughing, are they romantic/passionate, smart, exciting, and have the stuff that can make a relationship really meaningful. No one is perfect, I know this, so I am not going to let the age of a man stop my good intentions. I'll keep looking!
Michael A.
Age restrictions were 1/2 my age + 7; now my age - 6.
DearBubbie
The Topic is Age Discrimination in Dating. Why do the older men (and some who will lie) ONLY date younger women? Women, have you ever been a cougar and how did it work out? Men, what are/were your age restrictions?
__________________________________________________________________
Jeff
Simple instinct, having to do with reproduction.
Janet
I've had relationships with a few men who were younger than I. Even married one of them. While I would not have considered myself a cougar (I was in my 20's, and another time 40), none of those relationships lasted. The men were too immature, and didn't get where I was coming from (experience-wise). Have also dated men 10 years older than myself, and that didn't last, either. I like them older by about 5 years, and am happily married to one. HOWEVER-I've also seen relationships where the woman is old enough to be the guy's mother, and it has worked out well. I think this is just a matter of personal preference. As for the men who only date much younger women, I have questions about just how in-depth their relationships are. Remember 'Shallow Hal'?
Janet
Exactly, Jeff. If it's all about sex (reproduction), how deep is their relationship? BTW-good to see you comment on here!
Jen
From someone who spent 7 years madly in love with a man almost 21 years older, I can tell you that our relationship was very "in-depth". Granted he was perhaps the most vain person I've known...but that doesn't change the connection we shared. NOW, however...I want younger...does that make me a cougar? Same age, a few years younger, it's all good.
Karis
Okay ~ been a cougar. Didn't work so well with the man that lied about his age to appear older (who the hell wants to be OLDER?). There was a 19-year age difference. I don't think the age difference would have been such a factor if he hadn't lied about it. RED FLAG from the get go. As others started hoisting themselves up, I was done.Almost all the other men in Italy I've dated have been younger than I am ~ anywhere from 4-8 years. I don't count that as being a cougar though. My long-term relationship in the US was with a man 11 years older than I am. So I've had both experiences.The most important to me in a relationship is not age but common values, morals, interests. Things that actually sustain a relationship. I've met young men that are years ahead of themselves and I've met older men that don't have a Fu@king clue ~ go figure! It's a jungle out there...for the cougars, the bears, the lions and the apes!!
DearBubbie
I asked a FB male friend to comment on this topic, since he was actually angry with me for not wanting to date someone as old as he was. He only dates YOUNG YOUNG women - and they go for it. He's intelligent and charming, has 'some' money, but I was NEVER attracted. I don't know where the attraction is and these women that he did date are attractive and intelligent.
DearBubbie
I remember getting involved with a man 17 years my junior. I felt kind of embarrassed. And I kept thinking when I was OLDER, how people might think he was my SON. Fortunately, he dumped me after a VERY short amount of time. Whew!
Janet
Yes, Jen.....you two did have a wonderful relationship, and it showed. You, however, are exceptional. You are mature, and highly intelligent, and self sufficient. So-it worked for you. I am talking about the very young women who idolize the older man, thinking.....wisdom, experience, someone to look out after and provide for them. And-what's wrong with that even? Personal preference.
Chris
I prefer a man a little older than me. Men that I have dated that have been the same age or younger I have always found to be too immature for my taste. However on the flip side I have dated men that have been quite a bit older that still don't know the first thing about maturity. I , like Jen had a 5 year relationship with someone 25 plus years my senior and we had a great relationship with a lot in common as long as I was catering to his every need. Selfish like her experience. Bubbie, the attraction I think was the charm and looks and the sense that he had some stability to offer. It was after my divorce from a man that made me feel very insecure about his safety and our future together. It was never about the money, as I was too stubborn to let him "pay my way" for anything. The only thing I would accept monetary wise was a trip every year that he wanted us to go on. I did not have the savings for those kinds of trips but I did have the funds from the sale of my restaurant to take a few weeks off every year. And it was my intent to stay with this man through sickness and health. We owned 2 homes together and I was a part of his daughter's life and the life of his 3 Grandchildren in Sarasota.
Jealousy reared it's ugly head with him, not over another man, but over my love of horses. He made me choose... I don't do well with ultimatums and he didn't either! Yes, there were other differences, but none of them had to do with age!My husband now is 12 years older than me and I had to figure out the age difference this morning again as I never keep it in mind. We have many hobbies that we share and a few of our own. I feel like we share everything and feel safe with him and trust him 100 percent.So older, younger, or the same age is a matter of your preference. Don't worry about how others look at your relationship. They never know the whole story, only what they see from the outside. Listen to your mind first, then your heart. My only warning from experiences of my own is for woman in age range of 18-early 20's. You have the rest of your life to live your life for a man as a wife or as a Mom. Don't rush into any relationship until you have had the time to grow yourself. If a man won't support your decision to go to school or build your career before a full time relationship/marriage with him at an early age, then he probably is very selfish. You have the rest of your life! And if he really loves you, he will be there for you. Not that marriage and Motherhood at a young age are a bad thing if that is your ultimate goal.
I have several friends that were married young and are still happy 20/30 years later, and in the case of my Grandparents, 70 years later! But if you have always wanted a certain career or a college degree, or to ride across the US by motorcycle or sail around the world or volunteer as a missionary, DO IT FIRST! It will make your future relationships much stronger knowing that you didn't change your dreams for another man or for a woman. (Goes both ways here!)
Susan
I don't have much experience in this area, as I have only dated men within five years of my age, and I've been married for almost 25 years... BUT I will tell you that I work in the health care field (I am an acupuncturist), and these older men that are with younger women have the worst lower back problems I've ever seen, lol! They get treated, feel better, then they go home and get their energy drained that night and return with the pain. It's kind of funny that they just won't see this, and when I attempt to discuss it with them there's usually a pretty solid wall. From a purely physiological perspective, younger men match up much better energetically with older women. But our society doesn't really go for that theory!
Chris
Again, I wish Susan had her practice in Sarasota while I was living there and with an older man! LOL!!By the way, my first husband and I were the same age. I don't think I mentioned that. He was a very good person and a hard worker, but we just were not on the same page, at all! I should have seen it earlier, but I followed the heart, not the head!! And I did my best to make it work, and give him time, but remember that people should not change for us. They need to grow and change for themselves.
David
I have dated much younger women by up to 17 years my junior. I was up front about my age, and the age difference.I received a few remarks as to cradle robber, and the rolling of eyes from others. I did not actively seek these younger women out, they approached me. And true I could have said "NO"... I had on call me a few years back, and express that she wished she would have gotten to know me as a person, and not just for sex. I have dated older women also, I had one that was a RN, who was a widow 12 years my senior. Her deceased husband was a Doctor, she offered me what ever I wanted, but I was not for sale and just didn't feel right. Some can be very mature for their age, and some older ones can be very childish.
Susan
LOL Chris - I would have been happy to help! I just want to add that ANY age can be right for someone, as long as it's the right person. I try never to judge about what someone believes in... :)
Chris
And Bubbie, to address the issue of an older man that will ONLY date much, much younger women. He probably has some hangups of his own. And for someone to actually get mad at you for not accepting a date because of his age tells me YES, he has a issue, or two or maybe three?? There is no such thing as a perfect age in a mate. It has nothing to do with the calendar people!!
Jennifer
That's funny Susan. I'm dating a guy 6 yrs younger than me and the only time i feel old is when he talks about rappers with my kids that I have never heard of! Oh, and also when I see my gray hair, wrinkles, fat body, etc... Other than that, it's fine!
David
Very true Chris! As long as both are comfortable and compatible.
Anastashia
In my humble opinion; in general men are attracted to younger women first on a visual level. It also helps that in most cases a younger woman is willing to work harder to make the relationship last, vs. women of a certain age have more on their plate and can't spend every waking minute focused on every move their man is making.
Alisa
When it comes right down to it though, it depends on the emotional maturity of both parties, if the Maggie May/cub partnership works. If it rocks your world, does it really matter what anyone else thinks? It is your life; you are the one who decides how it is going to be lived. You just have to live with the consequences of those choices, good or bad. I’m the only one of my siblings that married someone older than themselves – so I guess cougar runs in the family….then again, I am at an age where even the younger men are older. LOL!To answer your question – and I am generalizing here guys! : Men look to procreate, women look for the best provider – it is a simple analogy but it rings true. We are just genetically built that way. Men don’t stop to consider their age as they hunt for the next partner to put the babymaker to. If it is offering, he’s likely taking. That’s how they are made. Procreate. The younger women, more likely to reproduce that say yes, are also following their inherited trait - find provider. If the older man appears interested, she is likely to use her attributes, to entice him to provide her with an evening, weekend, life that she would not alternately have. She can’t help it; she’s just drawn that way. IF I WERE A SINGLE WOMAN -------I would certainly not let age define my relationships; that said I prefer someone closer in age. I like confidence in a man, younger men often feel they have something to prove still and that can become tiresome. There is a lot of bravado in young men, a false confidence. There is something about a man who just knows; and that comes from ripening over the years. I don’t like to be with someone who hasn’t had enough life experiences to be interesting and thought provoking. I don’t want to be a teacher, nor a babysitter in my relationships. I did that with my children. If I was just looking for a sexual fling, then a younger man would be ideal – energy, enthusiasm, tight abs (smirk) and then it would be over. Ya-yas would be taken care of, no obligation to linger……. They would also be lovely arm candy for those social events that you don’t have a regular date for, so you can make your girlfriends and acquaintances drool. (okay, that was put in there for humour. Sort of. It would also be very difficult to socialize with a younger man’s friends, who are often younger still…..Think how awkward it would be, to feel like the parent at a party the younger partner invites you too? Yuck! Of course, the delicious whispers that would travel through YOUR own social circle as you introduced a cub to the gang, would be fun…for a while. (hee hee)
David
Great comment Alisa.
Sandy
I married my husband of almost 17 years when he was 24 and I was 33. We have a son that is 15 and amazing! I wouldn't change a thing. We are STILL each other's "arm candy" and it will always be that way! I still consider myself one of the "original" cougars and I love it! I say do what makes you happy. Age is a number not a prerequisite!
Sandy
That's so true, Sandy.. I love the two of you, and always thought that you belong together. I know everyone used to tease you about cradle robbing, but most of them are divorced now, lol! (not really laughing, though :) )
Jen
Thank you Janet! I think it helped that my husband did not at all LOOK 20+ years older than me...nor did he act it, and he thought it was funny and was flattered when people thought we were father/daughter. I'm going to add though that I have since dated other older men (20 or so years) that think they can "own" you based on either their money or their experience/wisdom. Who needs that? I think a younger man would be wonderfully rejuvenating! Just like kids keep you young..maybe that's a bad comparison, but I'm thinking somebody younger than me would not be jaded or cynical or have so much baggage? I'm curious though, what exactly IS a cougar...cause I don't want to be one!
Sandy
Thanks Sue! I love you guys too. I appreciate the thumbs up.When you belong together and you know it,working on it just comes naturally♥
Chris
My favorite George Strait song... It just comes Naturally. It is my ringtone when my husband calls.
Sandy
I love it !
Karis
Alisa ~ as always ~ great comments for us all :)
Alisa
Re: multiple dating... Dating and bedding are different animals. Get to know as many as you want, choose wisely who you bed! Unless there is the expectation of exclusivity from one of them, then date away. You'll find the one who is special to your heart and then you will stop the others right quick!
Michael
Historically, I never had "age restrictions" on the women I was attracted to or dated.However, I did have "maturity qualifications" and "drama-free" requirements.
Jen
Can somebody please define "cougar"?
Alisa
Woman over 35 who likes to date men younger, usually much younger and makes no excuses for it
DearBubbie
Sandy - that's a great story! Great comments!
Rebecca
I dated a wonderful vital energetic man who was a Leo with great hair--and he was 23 years older than me. At the time I was 36. I remember thinking at the time. well, are you crazy about him anyway? And the answer was YES! He never pretended to be anything other than the age he was...but there were serious INTIMACY issues...not sex...about allowing women to be close. Turns out he was in a repetitious pattern...after 5 years of crazymaking, I had to go...
Maureen
So, here I am back in the dating world after 18 years of togetherness. I am so new to this dating thing that I am bound to make some mistakes, hit a few bumps but always keeping in mind to give myself a break should I bed with the wrong fella. I only have the right intentions towards a man, no matter what their age, I am all about attraction, can they keep me laughing, are they romantic/passionate, smart, exciting, and have the stuff that can make a relationship really meaningful. No one is perfect, I know this, so I am not going to let the age of a man stop my good intentions. I'll keep looking!
Michael A.
Age restrictions were 1/2 my age + 7; now my age - 6.
Thursday, March 25, 2010
The Bubbies Take on Battling the Bullies
From the DearBubbie on Facebook files:
DearBubbie,
How does a child deal with bullies on and/or off the school grounds? Does getting parents involved make the situation worse? Have you or you child ever been the victim of a bully?
Janet
Bullies have always been around. When I was young, they were the name calling,, shoving, face shoved in the snow kind of bully, and we had to take care of it ourselves. To do otherwise would have made the bullies come down on you much harder. Today's bullies are much more violent, and it scares me. As a parent, you can't talk to the kid, or you ... See Morecould be in trouble. Speaking with the parents is oftentimes equally useless, as the parents are where the kids learned the behavior and think what their child is doing is perfectly normal, or the parents are in denial about their 'little angel'.
Maureen
Let Me start with this statement..I am not a fan of MIDDLE school! It is the toughest three years in a child's life!Yes my children have been bullied. They have all reacted differently to the situations, because they are three different kids.The worst episode was when a child wore a white T-shirt under his school uniform so that none of the teachers could see what was going on. He had a sharpie with him and was asking other kids to sign his "I HATE MOLLY" shirt and to give a reason why! Nice kid.Well late in the day someone did notice it or overheard the chatter and one of Molly's true friends told her about it.Long and short of it the principle pulled everyone into his office who had signed the shirt. The school called me. I went down to pick her up but she did not want to go home until she had a chance to face her bully.The principle allowed her to sit in on the explanation of the said shirt and also allowed her to speak her mind to the bully.It was a very difficult situation for her but she did not back down and that made me be one PROUD mother!!
Chris
You Go Molly! She takes after her Mama!!
Jen
I like Molly! Sounds like a pretty cool cucumber!
Jan
What an awesome girl Molly is!
Chris
I remember back when I was grammar school age and a neighbor kid my age was bullying my brother who is 4 years younger than me Well back then, I must have already had the "biker chic" in me because I told him I would kick his ass if he didn't leave my brother alone!I only had one girl in high school try to give me some bully grief... I remember her name. It was Marina. I didn't back down and she eventually left me alone. She also had to face me a few years later when my Aunt married her older brother and we were at the bridal shower. She hid her face the whole time! I seemed to get along with almost everyone growing up. I know I was one of the lucky ones. I used to hate seeing anyone get picked on!Kids can be very mean. Especially girls! They can so cruel with choice of words, where boys tend to get more physical.... Teach your kids to be open with you. It could be very difficult to go home and tell a parent you are getting bullied if that parent is a hot head.
Mike
I think kids have to be taught how to stand up for themselves. If you don't show that you can hit back, the child will always be picked on. You can't always depend on adult supervision.
DearBubbie
I think that was a Brady Bunch episode, wasn't it? Thanks, Michael.
Lance
As a former victim of bullies and a former teacher (six years) I've seen my share of bullying. Remember, bullying is one person seeking power over another. Intimidation is just one way of doing this. Children will also talk about someone to other (indirect approach) that weakens the victim and makes them an easier target. Bullying isn't always physical, but it's the easiest to see.With all due respect to Mike, violence isn't the answer. Defending yourself is one thing, but you don't need a fist to do that. Then how do you defend yourself? It depends on the age of the child, really. If a K-2 child retaliates against a bully physically, and you praise them, you're sending a message that promotes fists over words. Take ALL bullying reports seriously, call the principal, not the teacher. The teacher will respond to the principal faster than a parent. Teachers are hard working people that do more in a day than almost any other profession AND track their kids educational and emotional progress. They can't always pick up the phone or call you back THAT day. But the principal can put that issue at the top of the teacher's list. Sit down with school support people (guidance counselors and such) and talk about the scenario. Make a plan.The best plan that I would come up with in my class is that if a child feels bullied or threatened at ANY TIME, walk to me wherever I am and tap me in the arm THREE TIMES. That was my cue. The child would go to the restroom and I would go to my desk. They would come out in a minute and I would wait for them to come to me and tell me what happened. All of this is done in private. If the child was seriously distressed, I sent them to the office with a bully note that took him/her to a principal or the guidance counselor. They had a meeting and, from there, a conference was called with that child. YOU MUST CONFRONT A BULLY! Most bullies won't carry out a threat, but you can't hope they won't. Through a meeting, a bully will often, not always, back down or, at least think twice. Also, most bullies have multiple vicitms; if a principal sees a bully more than once, more immediate action is taken. Most schools have a bullying response framework; read it!... If the bullying continues to where a child can't operate safely, then a move is made either to another room or, in rare cases, another school. Schools are working very hard to deal with bullying and I STRONGLY encourage parents and caregivers to use the tools schools have. If you feel your child's concerns are being ignored, document what HAS happened and the response of the school. Then, call a lawyer, the superintendent, or, if it's a middle or high school student, the police. Be proactive; never ignore a call for help. If you do, the child will take action that is most often, very damaging to the child and other children.
David
I never really had a problem of being picked-on by Bullies myself, I was always a scrapper and never ran away from from a Bully. I learned at a very young age to stand-up, or be picked on. I had a friend in Middle School that was always being Bullied, his lunch money was always taken by this Bully. I just happened to be there one day when it happened again, big mistake! I not only made this Bully give my friend his money back, but I shoved him in a locker and locked him in it. And told this Bully that if I ever heard of him bothering another person again, that I would be hunting him down and give him the ass whipping of his life. When I was in the 1st grade, I witnessed this woman beat my mother severely as we were walking to the store. She was never a scrapper or said anything bad about anyone. This woman wanted my dad and was told no, so she thought if she beat her bad enough she would let him go. I've hated Bullies ever since.
Jan
Excellent response Lance!
David
Yes Lance, excellent comment.
Lance
Thanks Jan and David. Always make an effort to keep fists out of the outcome. Often, a bully, like any abused person, was once abused themselves. It doesn't make it appropriate, but the chain of abuse must be broken.
January
My daughter had a bully in the 4th grade (3yrs ago) it was the day before Christmas break, The kid (a boy) comes up to her and says "I'm getting a gun for Christmas, and when I get older, I'm going to hunt you down and kill you". She didn't want to say anything to me, but 2 of her friends told me (I was at school that day for an event) as soon as... See More I found out, I asked the girls to tell the teacher, since they heard him. This kid only picked on her. He was taken to thew principal, and he cried like a girl!!!!About a month later, my daughter's teacher called me to let me know that the kids mother asking her for our number. The teacher told her she could not do that. The mother then told the teacher, please tell them that we are "Christians" and we don't teach our son things like that. He has never done anything like that. Shortly after this, the kid moved!It took my daughter a long time to get over that, she was always looking around. : (
Denise
My son was getting picked on at the bus stop. He was only in second grade. My husband, who was picked on every day in school enrolled him in karate the next week. His karate school is great. They teach "bully moves." My son also knows it is not acceptable to use his karate for anything other than self defense. It is ment to remove the other person from him and then to seek help from an adult. It has also given a lot of confidence not to mention balance. He is getting his Jr Black Belt this saturday!
DearBubbie
David - I loved your response. You are a lot like my husband. Denise - I think martial arts - with the right instructor - is such a good thing for boys and girl. ANd for sure, I'd think it would be a bully deterrent. Lance - I had a feeling you would have a great answer. Thank you so much. Part of this question however is - what if it happens OFF CAMPUS? January - I'm so sorry for your daughter. Imagine celebrities who get these kinds of threats. . .I'm glad the parents followed through.
Chris
I am going to give you an extreme case of bullying that I need to leave very vague as it happened to one of my former employees. And sometimes, I am sure some of you may think, what does she know about kids or teens? She doesn't have any of her own! But as a side note. As a business owner for 9 years I had many youngsters work for me, as well as many at The Bath & Racquet Club. Many of those 15 yr olds and up counted on me to be there for them as a mentor. I considered all of them to be "my family."I had one tell me the story of going out one night against the wishes of her parents. Well, she was date raped and threatened. The fellow HS student threatened to kill her family if she told anyone. She was afraid to admit to being out in the first place and blamed herself for the incident.I understood her having the fear of telling her parents as I had very strict parents and I got the brunt of that strictness as the oldest child. My only point here to make is to please make sure your child knows that it is always safe to come to you with a problem or a mistake that they have made. That yes, there may be some consequences, but that you will love them no matter what. This particular young lady did have great parents! And she eventually told her Father. School is a very tough place. Make sure the children in your life tell you about their day... every day! Even as an employer, I asked questions daily of my staff. If you know that child well, you will know quickly that something is not right with them.
Chris
Oh and January, my heart goes out to your daughter. That was a terrible burden for her I am sure for a very long time. And Lance, great answers!! You sound like a wonderful mentor!
January
Thank you Chris.
Kelly
I can't say that I ever remember being bullied as a child/adolescent. My daughter has had a few girls pick on her recently, mostly about her hair, which is naturally curly and insanely thick and sometimes difficult to work with. I am trying to teach her to defend herself using words, and to let these girls know that she likes herself just the way she is. I also remind her of how beautiful I think she is and that many adults are jealous of her hair. I told her, too, that these girls are most likely jealous of her and her hair and pick on her as a way to make themselves feel better. I hope it is working, and I check with her to see how she is doing. If she feels physically threatened, she knows to go to a responsible adult and let them know. It is unbelievable how mean kids can be, even at this young age.
Tatiana
I have a LOT to offer here, but I am packing to go back to Miami.....my oldest son (25) was the victim of bullies all his life because he has not only Asperger's Syndrome, but is also Schizophrenic....we put him in Martial Arts (which he loved) but that didn't help him be more assertive. As he grew up and my 2nd husband and I encouraged him to ... See Moredefend himself, he slowly became more aware of things and more confident. One day he asks my ex-husband to "quickly, hurry-up and give him" our dog and her leash at the time (he never walked the dog or anything...lol) - so, naturally, we wondered why he wanted to hurry up and walk the dog? We looked out the window and saw him run up the hill in front of my house just to catch up with this kid who bullied him since he was little, Kevin Taylor, and grab him and beat him up!!!! He was 12 or 13. Now - I am NOT an advocate of violence AT ALL - but I must admit that I was happy that after all those years of people picking on my son, he defended himself, and that was the end of everything! Word got around the neighborhood, and NO ONE has messed with my son SINCE!!!!!
Tatiana
AS for Maureen...she is RIGHT! Middle School are the toughest years for a child. It's that awkward stage when they are growing up but are not quite adults yet. 7th grade in particular is rough. I am saying all of this because I used to be a teacher (Special Ed) years ago and I did also work in 2 different middle schools throughout my career.
Michelle Jo
As a teacher, i would much rather know about the bullying from the child (or parent) than from the principal! when parents circumvent communication with the teacher, it creates a disconnect. i ask myself, why didn't the parent feel as if i could take care of the situation? i am a strong, loving teacher and do not tolerate bullying. i admit that i don't catch everything- but at least give the teacher a heads up. when i know about it, I (the adult closest to the offender) can intervene. i give victims the power to confront bullies and require restitution of some sort from bullies. WORK WITH THE TEACHER, PLEASE! (This is assuming the teacher is a good teacher!)
Lance
Michelle, surely as a teacher you want to know ASAP. However, as you know, a teacher's day is terribly busy and we can't always pick up the phone. I want to know about this ASAP. A principal will get my attention immediately. The teacher is THE CENTER of the bullying team and s/he will dictate what happens in the classroom and is the first line of defense. It was ABSOLUTELY not my intention to suggest a teacher's role in this is below a principal OR a guidance counselor and I very sorry if that was the preception I gave. When all three work with parents and the child, progress is made and a solution will most likely be found.Michelle, I applaud you as a caring and involved teacher.
DearBubbie
Yeah, I agree, Lance. Michelle - they need to make more teachers like you. I hope Rebecca Prozzo also comments since she's a teacher.
DearBubbie
Here's my Bubbiehubbie's Bully Story. . happened in Norfolk, Va - the 1970's. They decided to segregate a black high school. My husband didn't have RED hair - it was bright RED/ORANGE. While all the white kids looked alike, John stood out like Ronald McDonald. What he remembers is that the black kids didn't like the white kids coming to their school. One of the questions they other students would demand was: "Give me your lunch money." Girls and boys would get beat up if they said: No. There were security guards on campus, but they'd just break up the fights. There were no repercussions except for a trip to the principle's office. My husband said he learned how to fight because of this and lesson one: Survive the first punch.Once there was a mentally challenged kid that was surrounded by five students. John went to his defense. He recalls it like it was yesterday:"This isn't right," my husband told the kids."Get outta here, this ain't none of your business.""If I leave, he's coming with me."The next thing my husband knew, he was upside down, getting beat up, getting a bloody nose and the mentally challenged kid was nowhere around. However John said the kid had the wherewithal to get a security guard. A few days later, the same group yelled out: "There's the guy who helped the retarded kid!"And he got beat up again.The same thing happened when John saw his buddy surrounded by about 4 - 5 kids. He quickly gathered two more guys and they fought for their friend. But again, because of John's RED hair, they would remember him and point him out for yet another fight.He said this continued from 7th - 12th grade. I asked my husband if this affected him in any way. He replied: "I never did very well in school."John's Mom was going to pull him out of that school. I wonder what would have happened if she had.This was only thirty years ago. Times have changed, thankfully.
DearBubbie
Geez - sorry for the typos. You can't scroll back to see what you've written for pete's sake!
Chris
It is FB spelling Bubbie... it doesn't count!
DearBubbie
From an anonymous Bubbie: "Your husband sounds like a good man. Not sure if my experience was actual bullying, but definitely intimidation. There was a particular gal, the ruler of many, that for whatever reason began to focus on me. I was one of the reasons that I came to love my humanites teacher so much. Once a straight A student, I dropped to an F in her class my last semester of my senior year because more often than not, I wouldn't go to her class. I had her right after lunch and this girl and her followers would hang out at my locker waiting for me to show up. Never one for confrontation, I would avoid. But this teacher knew something was up for me and while my grade held as an F, she didn't turn me in for skipping (it was that year that they started the absentee benchmark - if you missed X number of classes you would automatically fail). I went out to my car after school during that time to find my tires flattened, but you can't assume..........." This anonymous Bubbie is one of the sweetest people I've come to know - I'm so sorry she had to go through this. . .HOWEVER, as we talked about in the topic 'revenge' - the girl who caused our Bubbie so much grief did indeed get hers. But that's another story for another day. Thank you, anonymous Bubbie. ♥
Chris
Like I said... girls can be so cruel. I hope Karma worked itself out for her bully. Go to bed Bubbie! Me too... Goodnight!
Michael
The best ways to deal with bullies you ask? (Or maybe you didn’t): 1. Train and become proficient in Mixed Martial Arts and vow never to practice on a human outside the ring. 2. Do not elevate a situation with words. 3. Walk away. 4. Run away. 5. If caught by the bully (or his/her friends)… disregard number one above and destroy the aggressor (FYI, with good training, that should take one to two shots and less than 5 seconds before the ground game begins). BTW. In my experience… bullies rarely have good fighting skills.
DearBubbie
Thank you, Michael - great post.
DearBubbie,
How does a child deal with bullies on and/or off the school grounds? Does getting parents involved make the situation worse? Have you or you child ever been the victim of a bully?
Janet
Bullies have always been around. When I was young, they were the name calling,, shoving, face shoved in the snow kind of bully, and we had to take care of it ourselves. To do otherwise would have made the bullies come down on you much harder. Today's bullies are much more violent, and it scares me. As a parent, you can't talk to the kid, or you ... See Morecould be in trouble. Speaking with the parents is oftentimes equally useless, as the parents are where the kids learned the behavior and think what their child is doing is perfectly normal, or the parents are in denial about their 'little angel'.
Maureen
Let Me start with this statement..I am not a fan of MIDDLE school! It is the toughest three years in a child's life!Yes my children have been bullied. They have all reacted differently to the situations, because they are three different kids.The worst episode was when a child wore a white T-shirt under his school uniform so that none of the teachers could see what was going on. He had a sharpie with him and was asking other kids to sign his "I HATE MOLLY" shirt and to give a reason why! Nice kid.Well late in the day someone did notice it or overheard the chatter and one of Molly's true friends told her about it.Long and short of it the principle pulled everyone into his office who had signed the shirt. The school called me. I went down to pick her up but she did not want to go home until she had a chance to face her bully.The principle allowed her to sit in on the explanation of the said shirt and also allowed her to speak her mind to the bully.It was a very difficult situation for her but she did not back down and that made me be one PROUD mother!!
Chris
You Go Molly! She takes after her Mama!!
Jen
I like Molly! Sounds like a pretty cool cucumber!
Jan
What an awesome girl Molly is!
Chris
I remember back when I was grammar school age and a neighbor kid my age was bullying my brother who is 4 years younger than me Well back then, I must have already had the "biker chic" in me because I told him I would kick his ass if he didn't leave my brother alone!I only had one girl in high school try to give me some bully grief... I remember her name. It was Marina. I didn't back down and she eventually left me alone. She also had to face me a few years later when my Aunt married her older brother and we were at the bridal shower. She hid her face the whole time! I seemed to get along with almost everyone growing up. I know I was one of the lucky ones. I used to hate seeing anyone get picked on!Kids can be very mean. Especially girls! They can so cruel with choice of words, where boys tend to get more physical.... Teach your kids to be open with you. It could be very difficult to go home and tell a parent you are getting bullied if that parent is a hot head.
Mike
I think kids have to be taught how to stand up for themselves. If you don't show that you can hit back, the child will always be picked on. You can't always depend on adult supervision.
DearBubbie
I think that was a Brady Bunch episode, wasn't it? Thanks, Michael.
Lance
As a former victim of bullies and a former teacher (six years) I've seen my share of bullying. Remember, bullying is one person seeking power over another. Intimidation is just one way of doing this. Children will also talk about someone to other (indirect approach) that weakens the victim and makes them an easier target. Bullying isn't always physical, but it's the easiest to see.With all due respect to Mike, violence isn't the answer. Defending yourself is one thing, but you don't need a fist to do that. Then how do you defend yourself? It depends on the age of the child, really. If a K-2 child retaliates against a bully physically, and you praise them, you're sending a message that promotes fists over words. Take ALL bullying reports seriously, call the principal, not the teacher. The teacher will respond to the principal faster than a parent. Teachers are hard working people that do more in a day than almost any other profession AND track their kids educational and emotional progress. They can't always pick up the phone or call you back THAT day. But the principal can put that issue at the top of the teacher's list. Sit down with school support people (guidance counselors and such) and talk about the scenario. Make a plan.The best plan that I would come up with in my class is that if a child feels bullied or threatened at ANY TIME, walk to me wherever I am and tap me in the arm THREE TIMES. That was my cue. The child would go to the restroom and I would go to my desk. They would come out in a minute and I would wait for them to come to me and tell me what happened. All of this is done in private. If the child was seriously distressed, I sent them to the office with a bully note that took him/her to a principal or the guidance counselor. They had a meeting and, from there, a conference was called with that child. YOU MUST CONFRONT A BULLY! Most bullies won't carry out a threat, but you can't hope they won't. Through a meeting, a bully will often, not always, back down or, at least think twice. Also, most bullies have multiple vicitms; if a principal sees a bully more than once, more immediate action is taken. Most schools have a bullying response framework; read it!... If the bullying continues to where a child can't operate safely, then a move is made either to another room or, in rare cases, another school. Schools are working very hard to deal with bullying and I STRONGLY encourage parents and caregivers to use the tools schools have. If you feel your child's concerns are being ignored, document what HAS happened and the response of the school. Then, call a lawyer, the superintendent, or, if it's a middle or high school student, the police. Be proactive; never ignore a call for help. If you do, the child will take action that is most often, very damaging to the child and other children.
David
I never really had a problem of being picked-on by Bullies myself, I was always a scrapper and never ran away from from a Bully. I learned at a very young age to stand-up, or be picked on. I had a friend in Middle School that was always being Bullied, his lunch money was always taken by this Bully. I just happened to be there one day when it happened again, big mistake! I not only made this Bully give my friend his money back, but I shoved him in a locker and locked him in it. And told this Bully that if I ever heard of him bothering another person again, that I would be hunting him down and give him the ass whipping of his life. When I was in the 1st grade, I witnessed this woman beat my mother severely as we were walking to the store. She was never a scrapper or said anything bad about anyone. This woman wanted my dad and was told no, so she thought if she beat her bad enough she would let him go. I've hated Bullies ever since.
Jan
Excellent response Lance!
David
Yes Lance, excellent comment.
Lance
Thanks Jan and David. Always make an effort to keep fists out of the outcome. Often, a bully, like any abused person, was once abused themselves. It doesn't make it appropriate, but the chain of abuse must be broken.
January
My daughter had a bully in the 4th grade (3yrs ago) it was the day before Christmas break, The kid (a boy) comes up to her and says "I'm getting a gun for Christmas, and when I get older, I'm going to hunt you down and kill you". She didn't want to say anything to me, but 2 of her friends told me (I was at school that day for an event) as soon as... See More I found out, I asked the girls to tell the teacher, since they heard him. This kid only picked on her. He was taken to thew principal, and he cried like a girl!!!!About a month later, my daughter's teacher called me to let me know that the kids mother asking her for our number. The teacher told her she could not do that. The mother then told the teacher, please tell them that we are "Christians" and we don't teach our son things like that. He has never done anything like that. Shortly after this, the kid moved!It took my daughter a long time to get over that, she was always looking around. : (
Denise
My son was getting picked on at the bus stop. He was only in second grade. My husband, who was picked on every day in school enrolled him in karate the next week. His karate school is great. They teach "bully moves." My son also knows it is not acceptable to use his karate for anything other than self defense. It is ment to remove the other person from him and then to seek help from an adult. It has also given a lot of confidence not to mention balance. He is getting his Jr Black Belt this saturday!
DearBubbie
David - I loved your response. You are a lot like my husband. Denise - I think martial arts - with the right instructor - is such a good thing for boys and girl. ANd for sure, I'd think it would be a bully deterrent. Lance - I had a feeling you would have a great answer. Thank you so much. Part of this question however is - what if it happens OFF CAMPUS? January - I'm so sorry for your daughter. Imagine celebrities who get these kinds of threats. . .I'm glad the parents followed through.
Chris
I am going to give you an extreme case of bullying that I need to leave very vague as it happened to one of my former employees. And sometimes, I am sure some of you may think, what does she know about kids or teens? She doesn't have any of her own! But as a side note. As a business owner for 9 years I had many youngsters work for me, as well as many at The Bath & Racquet Club. Many of those 15 yr olds and up counted on me to be there for them as a mentor. I considered all of them to be "my family."I had one tell me the story of going out one night against the wishes of her parents. Well, she was date raped and threatened. The fellow HS student threatened to kill her family if she told anyone. She was afraid to admit to being out in the first place and blamed herself for the incident.I understood her having the fear of telling her parents as I had very strict parents and I got the brunt of that strictness as the oldest child. My only point here to make is to please make sure your child knows that it is always safe to come to you with a problem or a mistake that they have made. That yes, there may be some consequences, but that you will love them no matter what. This particular young lady did have great parents! And she eventually told her Father. School is a very tough place. Make sure the children in your life tell you about their day... every day! Even as an employer, I asked questions daily of my staff. If you know that child well, you will know quickly that something is not right with them.
Chris
Oh and January, my heart goes out to your daughter. That was a terrible burden for her I am sure for a very long time. And Lance, great answers!! You sound like a wonderful mentor!
January
Thank you Chris.
Kelly
I can't say that I ever remember being bullied as a child/adolescent. My daughter has had a few girls pick on her recently, mostly about her hair, which is naturally curly and insanely thick and sometimes difficult to work with. I am trying to teach her to defend herself using words, and to let these girls know that she likes herself just the way she is. I also remind her of how beautiful I think she is and that many adults are jealous of her hair. I told her, too, that these girls are most likely jealous of her and her hair and pick on her as a way to make themselves feel better. I hope it is working, and I check with her to see how she is doing. If she feels physically threatened, she knows to go to a responsible adult and let them know. It is unbelievable how mean kids can be, even at this young age.
Tatiana
I have a LOT to offer here, but I am packing to go back to Miami.....my oldest son (25) was the victim of bullies all his life because he has not only Asperger's Syndrome, but is also Schizophrenic....we put him in Martial Arts (which he loved) but that didn't help him be more assertive. As he grew up and my 2nd husband and I encouraged him to ... See Moredefend himself, he slowly became more aware of things and more confident. One day he asks my ex-husband to "quickly, hurry-up and give him" our dog and her leash at the time (he never walked the dog or anything...lol) - so, naturally, we wondered why he wanted to hurry up and walk the dog? We looked out the window and saw him run up the hill in front of my house just to catch up with this kid who bullied him since he was little, Kevin Taylor, and grab him and beat him up!!!! He was 12 or 13. Now - I am NOT an advocate of violence AT ALL - but I must admit that I was happy that after all those years of people picking on my son, he defended himself, and that was the end of everything! Word got around the neighborhood, and NO ONE has messed with my son SINCE!!!!!
Tatiana
AS for Maureen...she is RIGHT! Middle School are the toughest years for a child. It's that awkward stage when they are growing up but are not quite adults yet. 7th grade in particular is rough. I am saying all of this because I used to be a teacher (Special Ed) years ago and I did also work in 2 different middle schools throughout my career.
Michelle Jo
As a teacher, i would much rather know about the bullying from the child (or parent) than from the principal! when parents circumvent communication with the teacher, it creates a disconnect. i ask myself, why didn't the parent feel as if i could take care of the situation? i am a strong, loving teacher and do not tolerate bullying. i admit that i don't catch everything- but at least give the teacher a heads up. when i know about it, I (the adult closest to the offender) can intervene. i give victims the power to confront bullies and require restitution of some sort from bullies. WORK WITH THE TEACHER, PLEASE! (This is assuming the teacher is a good teacher!)
Lance
Michelle, surely as a teacher you want to know ASAP. However, as you know, a teacher's day is terribly busy and we can't always pick up the phone. I want to know about this ASAP. A principal will get my attention immediately. The teacher is THE CENTER of the bullying team and s/he will dictate what happens in the classroom and is the first line of defense. It was ABSOLUTELY not my intention to suggest a teacher's role in this is below a principal OR a guidance counselor and I very sorry if that was the preception I gave. When all three work with parents and the child, progress is made and a solution will most likely be found.Michelle, I applaud you as a caring and involved teacher.
DearBubbie
Yeah, I agree, Lance. Michelle - they need to make more teachers like you. I hope Rebecca Prozzo also comments since she's a teacher.
DearBubbie
Here's my Bubbiehubbie's Bully Story. . happened in Norfolk, Va - the 1970's. They decided to segregate a black high school. My husband didn't have RED hair - it was bright RED/ORANGE. While all the white kids looked alike, John stood out like Ronald McDonald. What he remembers is that the black kids didn't like the white kids coming to their school. One of the questions they other students would demand was: "Give me your lunch money." Girls and boys would get beat up if they said: No. There were security guards on campus, but they'd just break up the fights. There were no repercussions except for a trip to the principle's office. My husband said he learned how to fight because of this and lesson one: Survive the first punch.Once there was a mentally challenged kid that was surrounded by five students. John went to his defense. He recalls it like it was yesterday:"This isn't right," my husband told the kids."Get outta here, this ain't none of your business.""If I leave, he's coming with me."The next thing my husband knew, he was upside down, getting beat up, getting a bloody nose and the mentally challenged kid was nowhere around. However John said the kid had the wherewithal to get a security guard. A few days later, the same group yelled out: "There's the guy who helped the retarded kid!"And he got beat up again.The same thing happened when John saw his buddy surrounded by about 4 - 5 kids. He quickly gathered two more guys and they fought for their friend. But again, because of John's RED hair, they would remember him and point him out for yet another fight.He said this continued from 7th - 12th grade. I asked my husband if this affected him in any way. He replied: "I never did very well in school."John's Mom was going to pull him out of that school. I wonder what would have happened if she had.This was only thirty years ago. Times have changed, thankfully.
DearBubbie
Geez - sorry for the typos. You can't scroll back to see what you've written for pete's sake!
Chris
It is FB spelling Bubbie... it doesn't count!
DearBubbie
From an anonymous Bubbie: "Your husband sounds like a good man. Not sure if my experience was actual bullying, but definitely intimidation. There was a particular gal, the ruler of many, that for whatever reason began to focus on me. I was one of the reasons that I came to love my humanites teacher so much. Once a straight A student, I dropped to an F in her class my last semester of my senior year because more often than not, I wouldn't go to her class. I had her right after lunch and this girl and her followers would hang out at my locker waiting for me to show up. Never one for confrontation, I would avoid. But this teacher knew something was up for me and while my grade held as an F, she didn't turn me in for skipping (it was that year that they started the absentee benchmark - if you missed X number of classes you would automatically fail). I went out to my car after school during that time to find my tires flattened, but you can't assume..........." This anonymous Bubbie is one of the sweetest people I've come to know - I'm so sorry she had to go through this. . .HOWEVER, as we talked about in the topic 'revenge' - the girl who caused our Bubbie so much grief did indeed get hers. But that's another story for another day. Thank you, anonymous Bubbie. ♥
Chris
Like I said... girls can be so cruel. I hope Karma worked itself out for her bully. Go to bed Bubbie! Me too... Goodnight!
Michael
The best ways to deal with bullies you ask? (Or maybe you didn’t): 1. Train and become proficient in Mixed Martial Arts and vow never to practice on a human outside the ring. 2. Do not elevate a situation with words. 3. Walk away. 4. Run away. 5. If caught by the bully (or his/her friends)… disregard number one above and destroy the aggressor (FYI, with good training, that should take one to two shots and less than 5 seconds before the ground game begins). BTW. In my experience… bullies rarely have good fighting skills.
DearBubbie
Thank you, Michael - great post.
Wednesday, March 3, 2010
Should a 16 year old Work?
From the DearBubbie@yahoo.com mailbox and the replies from our DearBubbie Facebook page.
Dear Bubbie:
Teenager just turns 16. Her goal is to make it into a Florida college (extremely tough). Grades are good. However, she wants to follow in the footsteps of her brother and work at a grocery store. Money has never been an issue for this family. Brother got involved with wrong people at work. Should she work there? Any ideal job thoughts for a girl that age? Or should she not work at all?
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Janet:
Don't quite get this questions. Her goal is to go to a Florida college, and she wants to work in the grocery store at the same time, or after she graduates?
DearBubbie
Thank you for allowing me to clarify, Janet. She wants to work WHILE she's still in high school. She just turned 16 and wants to work in addition to going to school. But it appears that her lofty ambition to get into a four-year college will be compromised with more focus on socializing and work at the new job - like it did with her brother.
Janet
I don't think that working part time while in high school will compromise her college education, as long as she keeps up her school work. Plenty of teenagers do that. It's not the job that would interfere, but any bad decisions she makes-such as hanging out with the wrong crowd, and letting her social life interfere with her schoolwork.
Sarah
Personal Experience - The people you work with do effect you. I don't think its a good idea for a young lady to seek employment at a place she already knows has alot of the wrong sorts of people working there. Just asking for trouble.
She should definitely work, but there are probably better options. One of My First Jobs was at a Starbucks Style Coffee House - It was fun, I felt cool, Met Cool People, and My Friends came to see me and get coffee all the time. Great for a Teenager. Another great job Option for teen gals is to work at a clothing store like Gap/Old navy/Charlotte Russe Etc... Make Some Money and get a discount on clothes etc...
If Money is not important - Concentrate mostly on school. You can also find volunteering opprotunities more rewarding and character building than a job if you find the right opprotunity (and there are LOTS)
Don't seek out a job that has caused trouble for people in the past. You will only be subjecting yourself to those same influences which you felt were bad for your brother. You might be able to handle it better than he did, but why make your first work experiences be negative ones?
Good Luck! SCHOOL FIRST!
Chris
I would highly recommend a job as a teen in the grocery store business. I worked for A & P Supermarkets in NJ in HS and I learned a lot in that business. Also at 19 yrs old I was given my own department as a manger and made close to $30,000 my first year. That was over 20 years ago! And if I knew then what I know now about managing people and running a business, I may have very well stayed in that business and been a merchandiser or district manager. I have friends back from those days that are still in the business that are great people with excellent careers making a wonderful living. It can be a very high stress retail job and supermarkets count on a huge amount of part time employees, so that is a huge challenge. I would tell this young lady, that if she enjoys the job then take it and learn as much as she can about customer service, financials, merchandising, purchasing, inventory, scheduling and put it to work with a college education! The supermarket business gave me the background training that I needed to run my own restaurant and it was an excellent thing to have on my resume through the years. I still have a reference letter from my store manager when I left A & P and I cherish his kind remarks about the job that I did for him.
There seems to be a stigma that a job at a supermarket is not a good career path. Do not be fooled by the aprons and silly hair nets. Managers make over $100,000 yr with bonuses and department heads these days can make $50,000 and up. It is hard to get a full time position as they usually promote from within. I believe in that concept. And if this young lady gets a college education and she finds that she loves the business, she would have a good chance of moving up.
So if her family is discouraging this part time high school job because they don't think it is a good place to work, they should think again. How many college graduates do they know that are unemployed or possibly bagging groceries to pay back a college loan? She might as well learn what the real world is about and I congratulate her on wanting to work hard and learn. Her brother meeting the wrong people has nothing to do with the business choice. He could have had a job as a Doctor or Lawyer and got mixed up with drugs, alcohol, liars.... you name it they are everywhere!
Janet
Yes-they are everywhere...in any place you work. That's why it all depends on the choices she makes. There are most likely also great people to associate with where her brother works.
Jan
Just because they are brother and sister does not mean that they are exactly alike. This girl is making good grades, wants to go on to a Florida college and WANTS to work. Sounds to me like she is an ambitious young lady. What kind of friends does she hang around with now? Chances are she will gravitate to the same kind of friends in a working environment.
Chris
Why is it more cool to work at a Starbucks than Publix? It is all a matter of what you consider a cool job. Do what you like and LOVE what you do! Most supermarkets offer college tuition for their employees as well. Even a company like Tractor Supply Company does that for their part time employees! It is an excellent benefit!! More so than a discount on clothing. I see some people work a t a retail store like the Gap and they spend more than they make because they get a discount. That discount won't do you a bit of good if it gets you in debt! And some supermarkets also offer discounts on their purchases. Not sure about Publix but I believe Whole Foods does.
And again, if she hangs with the wrong kids at school, she will find the wrong people to hang with at Publix too. A job at a Supermarket could teach her so much.
Just a side note. I always compliment any teenager at a job that I feel has an excellent attitude and has helped my shopping experience be pleasant. I believe kids these days don't get enough of that encouragement. And if I see someone that is rude to a teen employee for no reason, I usually try to make up for it when it is my turn to interact with them. ... I also had many teens that I hired at Word of Mouth Restaurant when I was the owner. These kids bussed tables, hosted, cashiered, prepped, took phone orders, etc. Nothing glamourous. But many of them are college graduates now that are working hard to break into the field that they want a job in. But until they find that job, I know that I taught them great skills that they can use at any restaurant to keep a cash flow coming in until they find the job of their dreams.
Tell this young lady to work to enhance her life learning, not just to get a paycheck to spend. Learn how to save and multi task. And Sarah is right... your school work must come first, especially if you want to get into a great college!
Alisa
she wants to work, it is a good thing. Don't dissaude her!
DearBubbie
I love Sarah's post. This teen idolizes her older brother - and I fear he wants her to go down the same path. I also think working part-time IS great, but be around the FIELD you want to strive for. In example - work at a veterinarian. She had business as a babysitter - learn how to save money and be busy on weekend nights. Or work for a family ... See Morebusiness and learn entrepeunerial skills. And you're DARN RIGHT, Chris, about earning good $$$'s at a grocery store with EXCELLENT BENEFITS, but that isn't her goal. To get into a college, you do have to show volunteer hours and take advanced classes and do well in them. This job surely sounds like a distraction to me. And what about for the weekend when you ARE behind on your homework or you WANT to play sports or see a movie - and you can't - because you're working. I think - that when we get OLDER, we HAVE to work. Why create hardship at such a young age when she doesn't have to? This is the time for piano lessons, schoolwork, organizations and discovering who you are. Her brother was also at the same place she was - with school being all-important. Basically his life went downhill after taking this job. But Jan has a great point - whoever she gravitates around NOW, will be the same type(s) she gravitates towards at work. I've just seen this young girl 'justify/explain' her brother's choices of friends - and I can only shake my head. Logic at that age can be filled with holes.
DearBubbie
I disagree, Alisa!!! LOL!!!!!
Chris
Who is asking the question here to begin with? The 16 yr old or her concerned parents? I was an excellent student with great grades, I played softball, was the editor of my school paper and I worked at a supermarket. It has nothing to do with where she works or if she works at all... it is all about how she handles her choices. If she idolizes her brother, maybe the brother is steering towards poor friend choices. The job won't do that for her. Some parents home school because they are so fearful that their child may get involved with poor friend choices. Believe in your kids, support them when they are trying to work hard and be independent, and help them get over a mistake when they make it. We all do make mistakes, don't we?
Allison
Publix is a great company to work for...and they do hire 16 year olds. Let's face it...in this economy it can be hard for ANYONE to get a job. And there are bad seeds in any line of employment. The parents just need to keep a watchul eye, and look for teachable moments. Use the bad seeds as examples of what not to do. Summer nannying and good ... See Moreold fashioned babysitting are also great ways to make money. I made $10-$15 an hour as a nanny when I was 17-20 and that was almost twenty years ago! I also still keep in touch with the kids who are graduating from college and masters programs. I learned a lot about parenting in a sort of "hands on" environment...invaluable experience!
Mon at 9:14am · · ReportLyn Larson My son worked at Publix starting at age 14 and enjoyed it, had no trouble with others there and still maintained his grades. He's not a straight A student but does pretty well. What is also important for her is to study for the entrance exams for college. UF for one is almost impossible to get into without 4+ GPA plus other qualifications they want.
Working helps you get a better perspecive on live and money and relationships. It also makes you learn to balance the things in your life so you can keep up with all of them. School, work, hobbies, friends, etc.
I agree that she should get a job where she wants to work and can enjoy the work. If we all learned early on to strive for a job that we enjoy, it would have helped many of us choose different paths than we did. I know I wish I had followed that course, instead of liestening to what people told me I should do. I finally figured it out, but I was older and wished I had gone the way I had wanted. ... See More
I wish her well in her endeavors; she sounds ambitious and should do well.
Maureen
This is a topic that I am living right now. I have a child that is a freshman in college and another that is a junior in high school.
We never pushed the older one tho get a job because his studies and his sports came first. Now that he is college he is at a disadvantage because all the other kids that have had more work experience as well as interview experiences than him have been able to find a job. He has not.
Now my daughter on the other hand wanted to go on a youth leadership conference in Washington DC and we said yes if she could earn her way. She took a job at a local fast food place and worked with different kids than she had within her own circle. Some of the kids went to different schools, some had different backgrounds as well as different life experiences. She had a great experience learning with them and from them. As well as the life experiences from having to answer to other adults, not teachers and not parents, and how to deal with working with the public.
I work for a local grocery chain which means that I work with kids 16 yrs olds and they come with all different situations as well. yes there are "bad kids" in the work place but they are also at school and church and at the mall etc It how you deal with them that matters to your own growth.
.
If this child doesn't have to work to have money for insurance then it become a choice and not a necessity let her make the choice if she doesn't like it she can leave it. There is nothing wrong with trying out different jobs while young. that is actually the beauty of being young.
Sarah
Work is not about Glamour. I just threw out an example of one of my first Jobs. I also worked as a Dishwasher, A Waitress, A Warehouse/Shipping Clerk, A Receptionist for the Boys/Girls Club, and as a Vet Assistant working Full time Night Shifts at a Large Animal Hospital All Before I was 18 (WHile Putting myself through high school and running a household) And there is Nothing Glamourous about Helping a Vet do a Necropsy on a Pregnant mare at 3am when its 25 degrees outside.
With that said - I LOVE the idea of a Teenager who is motivated to enter the workforce and balance that with School and Future Goals. there are lots of great PT jobs for Teens out there, grocery stores are just one of lots of options.
One of my BEST experiences (that helped me decide on my future career path) was when I worked 3 afternoons a week as a receptionist for the Boys and Girls Club and then if I had extra time the rest of the week I would go down and volunteer to help with fundraisers and networking with the community to find sponsers for Club events and generate donations, Working with the kids, and helping kids with homework. If I did not have time I was not obligated to go. It worked out great. I had plenty of time to take care of personal responsibilities, My Own Schooling, and Earn a decent PT Paycheck. (and it looks great on a Resume).
I ENCOURAGE this fine young lady to Work - I DISCOURAGE her from putting herself in a bad situation. There are OTHER grocery stores to work at too.
Chris
Great points Maureen! Too bad Jake can't use helping us bus tables at Word of Mouth when he was a young child coming to work with Mom! I agree with Maureen. Employers are looking for College grads, but they also look at life experience.
And Sarah, I know what you mean about being out in a cold, wet barn with a vet in the middle of the night... See More! Not very glamourous at all! LOL! Especially when you are wearing pajamas and mucking boots!! I always hate calling my horse vet late at night... but horses never get sick at normal times, do they?
David
My opinion would be if she wants to work part time, by all means go for it. But if the wrong people try sucking her in to their group she needs to say something to her parents, and or employer. I commend her for wanting to, but not having to work. And to seek furthering her education is fantastic! If the grades start to slack, or start calling off work to run with the in-crowd. Then it's time to take a step back, and take a perspective look at everything and see if her goals have changed. A 16 year old female is usually more mature than a young man of 19or 20. Keep your goals focused, watch out for the distractions of others trying to persuade you by peer pressure. Stick to your goals and you'll succeed where others fail.
Sarah
Great Post David!
Allison
Might I add that I also worked at Chuck E Cheese (my first job) and yes I did have to wear the costumes...which turned out to be both hillarious and fun and a great story as I have aged. Work is not about glamour and I really believe work is essential to building character. I am shocked how many young people these days don't work.
My 13 year old daughter works with me at the Indian restaurant on weekends to make spending money for her school trip to DC and NYC in May. I bet she thinks twice before she blows any of that money...and she has gained a ton of confidence (especially dealing with adults!).
David
Thanks Sarah!
Chris
Great comment David! My parents tried to discourage my jobs as they felt I didn't have to. I know the real reason is that they were trying to protect me from the wrong environment. All parents want to protect the children from the wrong outside influences. I was a very independent and strong teenager and very mature. I wanted to make my own money. I had a 100 house paper route at a very young age and was used to working. I also had many baby sitting jobs as well as pet sitting.
I had some wild and crazy friends, but that doesn't mean I let them influence me at all. I was the kind of kid in HS that just got along with everyone... the jocks, the preps, the junkies, you name it. But I was a good kid. I wanted trust and respect from my parents and believe me when I say I earned it.
I have seen a lot of parents these days push their children for a dream or career/college path because that is what they want for them. Who really wants this girl to get into a particular college? Does she want it or is it her parents telling her that is what she wants? Watching the Olympics this week was such a great experience, but there were several mentions of young athletes that were under so much pressure to win a medal. Why is there that much pressure at such a young age? Don't make your dreams, your child's dreams. Encourage them the best that you can to have a worthwhile goal... but make sure it is their goal.
Chris
Oh and Bubbie, I just reread your last post. Supermarkets can teach you the skills for just about any endeavor you are striving for... Financial, human resources, inventory, merchandising, customer service skills (Big one!!) and many more. And most Supermarkets are very involved in charities and it is a great place for a teen to get involved with the community. I know Publix used to be involved in many of the same charities I was in Florida and I know Whole Foods was a part of the Empty Bowls event and Giving Hunger the Blues. I will say again, that working for a supermarket as a teen was invaluable to me especially as an entrepreneur!
Charmaine
Read/listen to Deepak Chopra's "Seven Spiritual Laws of Success."
priceless.
Jan
Well said Chris!
Rose
In general - I would encourage her to work if she wants to. It's great that she has ambition and wants to try new experiences. Her parents just need to lay down some ground rules - for example limiting the number of hours she works, how late she works, and with the understanding that if her grades suffer she'll have to quit or cut back on her hours.
Chris
Maureen, maybe you can shed some light on rules for employers for hiring 16 yr olds as well. It has been awhile for me as I sold my business down there years ago, but there are laws for hiring teens, max hours and lateness, type of work, etc.
DearBubbie:
The girl desperately wants to go to UF. School is just sooo much harder than when I was in school It's much more time-consuming. My experience (way back when) was that I didn't have TIME for a 'real' part-time job. I was so busy with band! Summer is a great time for a kid to get their feet wet with employment and if this kid's goal IS COLLEGE - ... then I'd advise her to get a job or INTERN in an area that she really wants to learn more about.
DearBubbie really nods to ALL of the comments - it shows that while we may have different approaches to a kid working, everyone has the kids' BEST INTEREST in mind. It seems the consensus (and I think it's a good one) is if the kid wants to work, let her work but keep an eye on grades, hours and who her new work friends may be.
I'm not a Mom. I definitely would want to make sure my kid had some downtime and fun. I'd consider school their FULL-TIME JOB. You're only young once!
Maureen
there are definitive rules at where I work reguarding minors
A brief overview but not everything...
no more than 27 hr a week
no more than 4 hours on the clock before a off the clock lunch period ... See More
no working past 10pm on a school night
no working more tnan 7.5 hr on a day before school
Alisa
My daughter, Erika will be my example. She has worked since she was 15, with my blessing. Since grade 11, she held two positions of employment, which has continued to be her pattern to this day. She is currently in university, studying chemistry - after taking both paramedics and culinary arts. She is now 24. She left a $50,000 a year at the VON to go to university, but still keeps a part time position there and at the hotel chain. She wishes to become a dietician to combine her love of science and food.
Not only did her grades not suffer by working while in school but she: graduated on the honour roll from high school, got awards in science and math, completed a winter survival training program offered through the high school and was the top fundraiser for the school in her final year. Oh, and in there, she endured emergency surgery at 16, where they opened up her chest to remove a massive cyst from her entire chest cavity and throat. She was off school for months that year.
Erika got into every post secondary program, each quite challenging in their own right, that she ever wanted to take. One of the things they liked about her was her focus on her goals. It improved her ability to get into those programs because she proved she could handle challenges and be successful.
This summer, she is off to South America, on a humanitarian mission to the Amazon. She will build schools, wells, play and teach children English for two weeks. Instead of baking on a beach during her summer break, she is hauling a backpack into the jungle and is spending her time helping others. Her medical training from paramedics will no doubt come in handy. (Am I nervous? Damn right, I am but I admire her incredibly for being so brave and strong.)
Don’t sell this young woman short. If she is a good student and a generally good kid with a head on her shoulders, why not let her try it on for size? First, she has to go through the application process and acquire the job; a good experience to have. Yes, she gets to socialize a bit at work but, she has a job to do and responsibilities to the employer. Let them teach her the consequences, if she doesn’t do her job. ... See More
The reality of working may not appeal to her once she actually starts doing it. Sixteen year olds sure love their girlfriends and a social circle and don’t forget the parties she will miss out on! Maybe the pay cheque will make her want to be very responsible because, like Erika, there were things she wanted that we would or could not provide. Working part time allowed her to have her hearts desires, usually clothes! LOL
As parents, you set boundaries around the daughter and the job taking – hours, grades, social activities, attitude, savings vs. spending…. Giving her the opportunity to make some independent decisions now regarding her life, that are positive – like working – will boost her self-esteem and confidence. She may even be like my daughter, determined to be sure the rope I gave her to hang herself in the beginning, never gets tight.
Chris
Well said Alisa! I really believe in working as a teen. So many adults look for work after college with no work ethics, goals or personal skills. It amazes me that so many kids get everything handed to them. Bravo for giving your daughter that rope! Good luck to her in the Amazon! Very exciting!!
Chris
And I know that many kids do have great work ethics from college work, so don't take that as an insult to all kids fresh out of college. I just believe that working helps. And like Julie says, it does not have to be a paying job. It can be an internship or a volunteer job. Most employers take volunteer work into consideration!
Alisa
Thanks, Chris....I hung myself too many times in my youth. Nice to see the apple fell far from this tree! LOL
Erika
Okay, I know I'm a little late... But here's a view from me :)
I worked (as my mother knows) at two different places while in high school (Lenny's Sub Shop and Coldstone) while putting in a few hours every once in a while at my mothers work. I don't think that my school work was ever compromised. Wherever you work there are going to be other teens ... See Morethat are involved in the wrong type of things.... but it's what you make of yourself, not what others make you do or force you to do. If you remain strong, you will succeed.
Rebecca Prozzo
As a teacher I see many of my students at Publix, I have to be honest. Their hours stink. They go straight to work by 4 and aren't getting off til 9 or 10. These are not students making the high grades. Be sure of that! Granted, there are exceptions. Monitor their work hours and ASK TO SEE THEIR work! :))
DearBubbie
Thanks, Rebecca. I just talked with a woman who went to Princton. Did she work? "Yes, I interned for my Dad." Did she think she would work AND go to a good school? "No."
Dear Bubbie:
Teenager just turns 16. Her goal is to make it into a Florida college (extremely tough). Grades are good. However, she wants to follow in the footsteps of her brother and work at a grocery store. Money has never been an issue for this family. Brother got involved with wrong people at work. Should she work there? Any ideal job thoughts for a girl that age? Or should she not work at all?
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Janet:
Don't quite get this questions. Her goal is to go to a Florida college, and she wants to work in the grocery store at the same time, or after she graduates?
DearBubbie
Thank you for allowing me to clarify, Janet. She wants to work WHILE she's still in high school. She just turned 16 and wants to work in addition to going to school. But it appears that her lofty ambition to get into a four-year college will be compromised with more focus on socializing and work at the new job - like it did with her brother.
Janet
I don't think that working part time while in high school will compromise her college education, as long as she keeps up her school work. Plenty of teenagers do that. It's not the job that would interfere, but any bad decisions she makes-such as hanging out with the wrong crowd, and letting her social life interfere with her schoolwork.
Sarah
Personal Experience - The people you work with do effect you. I don't think its a good idea for a young lady to seek employment at a place she already knows has alot of the wrong sorts of people working there. Just asking for trouble.
She should definitely work, but there are probably better options. One of My First Jobs was at a Starbucks Style Coffee House - It was fun, I felt cool, Met Cool People, and My Friends came to see me and get coffee all the time. Great for a Teenager. Another great job Option for teen gals is to work at a clothing store like Gap/Old navy/Charlotte Russe Etc... Make Some Money and get a discount on clothes etc...
If Money is not important - Concentrate mostly on school. You can also find volunteering opprotunities more rewarding and character building than a job if you find the right opprotunity (and there are LOTS)
Don't seek out a job that has caused trouble for people in the past. You will only be subjecting yourself to those same influences which you felt were bad for your brother. You might be able to handle it better than he did, but why make your first work experiences be negative ones?
Good Luck! SCHOOL FIRST!
Chris
I would highly recommend a job as a teen in the grocery store business. I worked for A & P Supermarkets in NJ in HS and I learned a lot in that business. Also at 19 yrs old I was given my own department as a manger and made close to $30,000 my first year. That was over 20 years ago! And if I knew then what I know now about managing people and running a business, I may have very well stayed in that business and been a merchandiser or district manager. I have friends back from those days that are still in the business that are great people with excellent careers making a wonderful living. It can be a very high stress retail job and supermarkets count on a huge amount of part time employees, so that is a huge challenge. I would tell this young lady, that if she enjoys the job then take it and learn as much as she can about customer service, financials, merchandising, purchasing, inventory, scheduling and put it to work with a college education! The supermarket business gave me the background training that I needed to run my own restaurant and it was an excellent thing to have on my resume through the years. I still have a reference letter from my store manager when I left A & P and I cherish his kind remarks about the job that I did for him.
There seems to be a stigma that a job at a supermarket is not a good career path. Do not be fooled by the aprons and silly hair nets. Managers make over $100,000 yr with bonuses and department heads these days can make $50,000 and up. It is hard to get a full time position as they usually promote from within. I believe in that concept. And if this young lady gets a college education and she finds that she loves the business, she would have a good chance of moving up.
So if her family is discouraging this part time high school job because they don't think it is a good place to work, they should think again. How many college graduates do they know that are unemployed or possibly bagging groceries to pay back a college loan? She might as well learn what the real world is about and I congratulate her on wanting to work hard and learn. Her brother meeting the wrong people has nothing to do with the business choice. He could have had a job as a Doctor or Lawyer and got mixed up with drugs, alcohol, liars.... you name it they are everywhere!
Janet
Yes-they are everywhere...in any place you work. That's why it all depends on the choices she makes. There are most likely also great people to associate with where her brother works.
Jan
Just because they are brother and sister does not mean that they are exactly alike. This girl is making good grades, wants to go on to a Florida college and WANTS to work. Sounds to me like she is an ambitious young lady. What kind of friends does she hang around with now? Chances are she will gravitate to the same kind of friends in a working environment.
Chris
Why is it more cool to work at a Starbucks than Publix? It is all a matter of what you consider a cool job. Do what you like and LOVE what you do! Most supermarkets offer college tuition for their employees as well. Even a company like Tractor Supply Company does that for their part time employees! It is an excellent benefit!! More so than a discount on clothing. I see some people work a t a retail store like the Gap and they spend more than they make because they get a discount. That discount won't do you a bit of good if it gets you in debt! And some supermarkets also offer discounts on their purchases. Not sure about Publix but I believe Whole Foods does.
And again, if she hangs with the wrong kids at school, she will find the wrong people to hang with at Publix too. A job at a Supermarket could teach her so much.
Just a side note. I always compliment any teenager at a job that I feel has an excellent attitude and has helped my shopping experience be pleasant. I believe kids these days don't get enough of that encouragement. And if I see someone that is rude to a teen employee for no reason, I usually try to make up for it when it is my turn to interact with them. ... I also had many teens that I hired at Word of Mouth Restaurant when I was the owner. These kids bussed tables, hosted, cashiered, prepped, took phone orders, etc. Nothing glamourous. But many of them are college graduates now that are working hard to break into the field that they want a job in. But until they find that job, I know that I taught them great skills that they can use at any restaurant to keep a cash flow coming in until they find the job of their dreams.
Tell this young lady to work to enhance her life learning, not just to get a paycheck to spend. Learn how to save and multi task. And Sarah is right... your school work must come first, especially if you want to get into a great college!
Alisa
she wants to work, it is a good thing. Don't dissaude her!
DearBubbie
I love Sarah's post. This teen idolizes her older brother - and I fear he wants her to go down the same path. I also think working part-time IS great, but be around the FIELD you want to strive for. In example - work at a veterinarian. She had business as a babysitter - learn how to save money and be busy on weekend nights. Or work for a family ... See Morebusiness and learn entrepeunerial skills. And you're DARN RIGHT, Chris, about earning good $$$'s at a grocery store with EXCELLENT BENEFITS, but that isn't her goal. To get into a college, you do have to show volunteer hours and take advanced classes and do well in them. This job surely sounds like a distraction to me. And what about for the weekend when you ARE behind on your homework or you WANT to play sports or see a movie - and you can't - because you're working. I think - that when we get OLDER, we HAVE to work. Why create hardship at such a young age when she doesn't have to? This is the time for piano lessons, schoolwork, organizations and discovering who you are. Her brother was also at the same place she was - with school being all-important. Basically his life went downhill after taking this job. But Jan has a great point - whoever she gravitates around NOW, will be the same type(s) she gravitates towards at work. I've just seen this young girl 'justify/explain' her brother's choices of friends - and I can only shake my head. Logic at that age can be filled with holes.
DearBubbie
I disagree, Alisa!!! LOL!!!!!
Chris
Who is asking the question here to begin with? The 16 yr old or her concerned parents? I was an excellent student with great grades, I played softball, was the editor of my school paper and I worked at a supermarket. It has nothing to do with where she works or if she works at all... it is all about how she handles her choices. If she idolizes her brother, maybe the brother is steering towards poor friend choices. The job won't do that for her. Some parents home school because they are so fearful that their child may get involved with poor friend choices. Believe in your kids, support them when they are trying to work hard and be independent, and help them get over a mistake when they make it. We all do make mistakes, don't we?
Allison
Publix is a great company to work for...and they do hire 16 year olds. Let's face it...in this economy it can be hard for ANYONE to get a job. And there are bad seeds in any line of employment. The parents just need to keep a watchul eye, and look for teachable moments. Use the bad seeds as examples of what not to do. Summer nannying and good ... See Moreold fashioned babysitting are also great ways to make money. I made $10-$15 an hour as a nanny when I was 17-20 and that was almost twenty years ago! I also still keep in touch with the kids who are graduating from college and masters programs. I learned a lot about parenting in a sort of "hands on" environment...invaluable experience!
Mon at 9:14am · · ReportLyn Larson My son worked at Publix starting at age 14 and enjoyed it, had no trouble with others there and still maintained his grades. He's not a straight A student but does pretty well. What is also important for her is to study for the entrance exams for college. UF for one is almost impossible to get into without 4+ GPA plus other qualifications they want.
Working helps you get a better perspecive on live and money and relationships. It also makes you learn to balance the things in your life so you can keep up with all of them. School, work, hobbies, friends, etc.
I agree that she should get a job where she wants to work and can enjoy the work. If we all learned early on to strive for a job that we enjoy, it would have helped many of us choose different paths than we did. I know I wish I had followed that course, instead of liestening to what people told me I should do. I finally figured it out, but I was older and wished I had gone the way I had wanted. ... See More
I wish her well in her endeavors; she sounds ambitious and should do well.
Maureen
This is a topic that I am living right now. I have a child that is a freshman in college and another that is a junior in high school.
We never pushed the older one tho get a job because his studies and his sports came first. Now that he is college he is at a disadvantage because all the other kids that have had more work experience as well as interview experiences than him have been able to find a job. He has not.
Now my daughter on the other hand wanted to go on a youth leadership conference in Washington DC and we said yes if she could earn her way. She took a job at a local fast food place and worked with different kids than she had within her own circle. Some of the kids went to different schools, some had different backgrounds as well as different life experiences. She had a great experience learning with them and from them. As well as the life experiences from having to answer to other adults, not teachers and not parents, and how to deal with working with the public.
I work for a local grocery chain which means that I work with kids 16 yrs olds and they come with all different situations as well. yes there are "bad kids" in the work place but they are also at school and church and at the mall etc It how you deal with them that matters to your own growth.
.
If this child doesn't have to work to have money for insurance then it become a choice and not a necessity let her make the choice if she doesn't like it she can leave it. There is nothing wrong with trying out different jobs while young. that is actually the beauty of being young.
Sarah
Work is not about Glamour. I just threw out an example of one of my first Jobs. I also worked as a Dishwasher, A Waitress, A Warehouse/Shipping Clerk, A Receptionist for the Boys/Girls Club, and as a Vet Assistant working Full time Night Shifts at a Large Animal Hospital All Before I was 18 (WHile Putting myself through high school and running a household) And there is Nothing Glamourous about Helping a Vet do a Necropsy on a Pregnant mare at 3am when its 25 degrees outside.
With that said - I LOVE the idea of a Teenager who is motivated to enter the workforce and balance that with School and Future Goals. there are lots of great PT jobs for Teens out there, grocery stores are just one of lots of options.
One of my BEST experiences (that helped me decide on my future career path) was when I worked 3 afternoons a week as a receptionist for the Boys and Girls Club and then if I had extra time the rest of the week I would go down and volunteer to help with fundraisers and networking with the community to find sponsers for Club events and generate donations, Working with the kids, and helping kids with homework. If I did not have time I was not obligated to go. It worked out great. I had plenty of time to take care of personal responsibilities, My Own Schooling, and Earn a decent PT Paycheck. (and it looks great on a Resume).
I ENCOURAGE this fine young lady to Work - I DISCOURAGE her from putting herself in a bad situation. There are OTHER grocery stores to work at too.
Chris
Great points Maureen! Too bad Jake can't use helping us bus tables at Word of Mouth when he was a young child coming to work with Mom! I agree with Maureen. Employers are looking for College grads, but they also look at life experience.
And Sarah, I know what you mean about being out in a cold, wet barn with a vet in the middle of the night... See More! Not very glamourous at all! LOL! Especially when you are wearing pajamas and mucking boots!! I always hate calling my horse vet late at night... but horses never get sick at normal times, do they?
David
My opinion would be if she wants to work part time, by all means go for it. But if the wrong people try sucking her in to their group she needs to say something to her parents, and or employer. I commend her for wanting to, but not having to work. And to seek furthering her education is fantastic! If the grades start to slack, or start calling off work to run with the in-crowd. Then it's time to take a step back, and take a perspective look at everything and see if her goals have changed. A 16 year old female is usually more mature than a young man of 19or 20. Keep your goals focused, watch out for the distractions of others trying to persuade you by peer pressure. Stick to your goals and you'll succeed where others fail.
Sarah
Great Post David!
Allison
Might I add that I also worked at Chuck E Cheese (my first job) and yes I did have to wear the costumes...which turned out to be both hillarious and fun and a great story as I have aged. Work is not about glamour and I really believe work is essential to building character. I am shocked how many young people these days don't work.
My 13 year old daughter works with me at the Indian restaurant on weekends to make spending money for her school trip to DC and NYC in May. I bet she thinks twice before she blows any of that money...and she has gained a ton of confidence (especially dealing with adults!).
David
Thanks Sarah!
Chris
Great comment David! My parents tried to discourage my jobs as they felt I didn't have to. I know the real reason is that they were trying to protect me from the wrong environment. All parents want to protect the children from the wrong outside influences. I was a very independent and strong teenager and very mature. I wanted to make my own money. I had a 100 house paper route at a very young age and was used to working. I also had many baby sitting jobs as well as pet sitting.
I had some wild and crazy friends, but that doesn't mean I let them influence me at all. I was the kind of kid in HS that just got along with everyone... the jocks, the preps, the junkies, you name it. But I was a good kid. I wanted trust and respect from my parents and believe me when I say I earned it.
I have seen a lot of parents these days push their children for a dream or career/college path because that is what they want for them. Who really wants this girl to get into a particular college? Does she want it or is it her parents telling her that is what she wants? Watching the Olympics this week was such a great experience, but there were several mentions of young athletes that were under so much pressure to win a medal. Why is there that much pressure at such a young age? Don't make your dreams, your child's dreams. Encourage them the best that you can to have a worthwhile goal... but make sure it is their goal.
Chris
Oh and Bubbie, I just reread your last post. Supermarkets can teach you the skills for just about any endeavor you are striving for... Financial, human resources, inventory, merchandising, customer service skills (Big one!!) and many more. And most Supermarkets are very involved in charities and it is a great place for a teen to get involved with the community. I know Publix used to be involved in many of the same charities I was in Florida and I know Whole Foods was a part of the Empty Bowls event and Giving Hunger the Blues. I will say again, that working for a supermarket as a teen was invaluable to me especially as an entrepreneur!
Charmaine
Read/listen to Deepak Chopra's "Seven Spiritual Laws of Success."
priceless.
Jan
Well said Chris!
Rose
In general - I would encourage her to work if she wants to. It's great that she has ambition and wants to try new experiences. Her parents just need to lay down some ground rules - for example limiting the number of hours she works, how late she works, and with the understanding that if her grades suffer she'll have to quit or cut back on her hours.
Chris
Maureen, maybe you can shed some light on rules for employers for hiring 16 yr olds as well. It has been awhile for me as I sold my business down there years ago, but there are laws for hiring teens, max hours and lateness, type of work, etc.
DearBubbie:
The girl desperately wants to go to UF. School is just sooo much harder than when I was in school It's much more time-consuming. My experience (way back when) was that I didn't have TIME for a 'real' part-time job. I was so busy with band! Summer is a great time for a kid to get their feet wet with employment and if this kid's goal IS COLLEGE - ... then I'd advise her to get a job or INTERN in an area that she really wants to learn more about.
DearBubbie really nods to ALL of the comments - it shows that while we may have different approaches to a kid working, everyone has the kids' BEST INTEREST in mind. It seems the consensus (and I think it's a good one) is if the kid wants to work, let her work but keep an eye on grades, hours and who her new work friends may be.
I'm not a Mom. I definitely would want to make sure my kid had some downtime and fun. I'd consider school their FULL-TIME JOB. You're only young once!
Maureen
there are definitive rules at where I work reguarding minors
A brief overview but not everything...
no more than 27 hr a week
no more than 4 hours on the clock before a off the clock lunch period ... See More
no working past 10pm on a school night
no working more tnan 7.5 hr on a day before school
Alisa
My daughter, Erika will be my example. She has worked since she was 15, with my blessing. Since grade 11, she held two positions of employment, which has continued to be her pattern to this day. She is currently in university, studying chemistry - after taking both paramedics and culinary arts. She is now 24. She left a $50,000 a year at the VON to go to university, but still keeps a part time position there and at the hotel chain. She wishes to become a dietician to combine her love of science and food.
Not only did her grades not suffer by working while in school but she: graduated on the honour roll from high school, got awards in science and math, completed a winter survival training program offered through the high school and was the top fundraiser for the school in her final year. Oh, and in there, she endured emergency surgery at 16, where they opened up her chest to remove a massive cyst from her entire chest cavity and throat. She was off school for months that year.
Erika got into every post secondary program, each quite challenging in their own right, that she ever wanted to take. One of the things they liked about her was her focus on her goals. It improved her ability to get into those programs because she proved she could handle challenges and be successful.
This summer, she is off to South America, on a humanitarian mission to the Amazon. She will build schools, wells, play and teach children English for two weeks. Instead of baking on a beach during her summer break, she is hauling a backpack into the jungle and is spending her time helping others. Her medical training from paramedics will no doubt come in handy. (Am I nervous? Damn right, I am but I admire her incredibly for being so brave and strong.)
Don’t sell this young woman short. If she is a good student and a generally good kid with a head on her shoulders, why not let her try it on for size? First, she has to go through the application process and acquire the job; a good experience to have. Yes, she gets to socialize a bit at work but, she has a job to do and responsibilities to the employer. Let them teach her the consequences, if she doesn’t do her job. ... See More
The reality of working may not appeal to her once she actually starts doing it. Sixteen year olds sure love their girlfriends and a social circle and don’t forget the parties she will miss out on! Maybe the pay cheque will make her want to be very responsible because, like Erika, there were things she wanted that we would or could not provide. Working part time allowed her to have her hearts desires, usually clothes! LOL
As parents, you set boundaries around the daughter and the job taking – hours, grades, social activities, attitude, savings vs. spending…. Giving her the opportunity to make some independent decisions now regarding her life, that are positive – like working – will boost her self-esteem and confidence. She may even be like my daughter, determined to be sure the rope I gave her to hang herself in the beginning, never gets tight.
Chris
Well said Alisa! I really believe in working as a teen. So many adults look for work after college with no work ethics, goals or personal skills. It amazes me that so many kids get everything handed to them. Bravo for giving your daughter that rope! Good luck to her in the Amazon! Very exciting!!
Chris
And I know that many kids do have great work ethics from college work, so don't take that as an insult to all kids fresh out of college. I just believe that working helps. And like Julie says, it does not have to be a paying job. It can be an internship or a volunteer job. Most employers take volunteer work into consideration!
Alisa
Thanks, Chris....I hung myself too many times in my youth. Nice to see the apple fell far from this tree! LOL
Erika
Okay, I know I'm a little late... But here's a view from me :)
I worked (as my mother knows) at two different places while in high school (Lenny's Sub Shop and Coldstone) while putting in a few hours every once in a while at my mothers work. I don't think that my school work was ever compromised. Wherever you work there are going to be other teens ... See Morethat are involved in the wrong type of things.... but it's what you make of yourself, not what others make you do or force you to do. If you remain strong, you will succeed.
Rebecca Prozzo
As a teacher I see many of my students at Publix, I have to be honest. Their hours stink. They go straight to work by 4 and aren't getting off til 9 or 10. These are not students making the high grades. Be sure of that! Granted, there are exceptions. Monitor their work hours and ASK TO SEE THEIR work! :))
DearBubbie
Thanks, Rebecca. I just talked with a woman who went to Princton. Did she work? "Yes, I interned for my Dad." Did she think she would work AND go to a good school? "No."
Monday, February 8, 2010
Her Boyfriend Doesn't Like her Kids!
From the DearBubbie@Yahoo.com Mailbox: "I've been dating a man for over two years. I've never felt this way before and neither has he (we're in our late 30's); But, he isn't connecting to my kids. He says they're 'great', but there is no bonding and no support. Everythiing else is great. I don't know what to do. There could be problems... in the future, because I really did want a man to love my kids. .
Signed, Should We End It?"
These comments come from our DearBubbie Facebook Page. Of course we'd love to hear from you, too!
Lyn
If he isn't there for your children, is there really a future in this relationship? You might still date him, but I think I'd keep my eyes open for someone who does relate to the children and would bond with them and more. But that's just mho. Good luck!
Chris
How old are the kids? And how do they feel about bonding with another man that is not their Father? Bonding with a child can be tough even when you want to with all of your heart. And what do you mean by "there is no support?"
Richard
I suppose the "thinning of the herd" principle does not apply. Cats (and Rex) will always be there in a pinch...
DearBubbie
I'm so sorry to leave out the kids ages. I edit A TON to fit in the word limit. Two nine-year old boys and one six-year old girl. They do sports, but he'll opt out of watching them and leave that to Mother (even though he does sports himself). He picks and chooses - rather than really being a part of the brood.
Janet Bishop Castro
His actions indicate what kind of step father he would be. He is not only NOT supportive of the kids...he is not supportive of the mother. If he won't become part of the family, he will always be an outsider, and that won't work.
Chris Mucklow Meyer
I think at such a young age that the Mother really needs to be concerned about finding someone that can bond better with the kids. But even at that young age the kids could be giving off vibes that they don't want him around and maybe he is respecting that. Has she been on her own for long? The state offers an excellent class on dealing with ... See Morechildren of a divorce. When my husband divorced, I found it absolutely necessary to attend that class with him, so I could try to relate to what his 17 yr old daughter was going through. Her future step Dad did not. And even though she has not bonded with either step parent at least I can relate and empathize with what she was going through. Boys and girls handle divorce differently and the ages have different reaction levels as well. See if she can get the boyfriend to attend a class like this. It is a few hours, one night. If he shows no interest, that can be important. He may have no intention of ever wanting to bond. And maybe he just doesn't know what to do. Has she actually brought up her concern to him? Some men are just awkward around kids. Doesn't mean they don't love them any less. This is a tough subject because we don't know all of the details. Meeting a future spouse with children has a lot of issues to tackle. You need a very loving and understanding partner. If he is not those two things, I would move on!
The Follow-UPFOLLOW-UP From the Mailbox: "It is so hard to find the right person. He is RIGHT in every way, but to be honest...it's like I'm dealing with another child who wants attention. Sometimes I feel like he resents the attention I give to my kids, even though he thinks I'm a great mother. He's everything, but the ONE thing.... . .will this change over time?"
Janet
Have to laugh. I had one like that. He actually got upset when I bought sweat bands for my daughter (she had taken up racquetball), and didn't pick up anything for him! Notice the word 'h-a-d'.
Karis
Oooo.....more information. Okay, not likely that he will change pouting for the attention, especially if he's in his late 30s. Those are personality traits that are probably pretty firmly ingrained. My ex-husband pouted too. Notice the word "e-x".Funny Janet! Did I marry your ex?
DearBubbie
Marriage makes problems worse - not better. When someone didn't connect with my dog, they were out the door. And my dog tested my dates. I didn't care WHO they were. Yes, I was wrong - I was SINGLE for FOREVER as a result. Now I have someone who LOVED my dogs, barks and all. I desperately wanted to bond with my husband's kids - but they were ... See Morereally too different. (In example, DearBubbie is girly-girl; his 19-year old daughter wanted a BB gun and a knife for Xmas). BubbyHubby feels that his kids were part of his PAST life that I didn't choose - so it's up to me if I wanted to be a part of it or not. However, he didn't have custody. I think if any man makes you feel badly about having kids - or you start thinking things would be different if you didn't have the kids, I'd get rid of him quickly. Having kids was probably the best thing you've ever done and being a great Mom is a priority. If the man in your life doesn't 'get that' and love you for that, it's time to let go. The RIGHT person for you and your kids is out there. It just can't be the right person for you. . . Karis - it is amazing the tight bond that you helped created between all your kids. I was always surprised to hear you say you had five kids - when I knew you biologically had three. That is wonderful This guy has no kids - I think she needs to move on - unless he has some kind of breakthrough.
Rebecca
Caution: You want a partner, not competition for your children. Does he not come to their events because they are the center of attention, and not him? Is he uncomfortable in those situations and somehow finds a way to bring the attention back to him by moping, withdrawing, passively getting angry, finding something else to do and only being there... See More for things on his terms - regardless of your feelngs? After two years, if there were going to be the connection you want for them, there would be one already. The kids are only going to become more self-centered and demanding as they get out of the "cute" stage that yours are in. If he can't take it now, how will he take it then? Does he realize how important this is to you? If he does, he's either incapable or unwilling. Is either one something you can live with?
DearBubbie
Janet - I always NOD with your comments. You're an excellent Bubbie contributor.
Janet I've made alot of mistakes. LOL Still make some, but not the same ones.
Karis Janet ~ learning from our past mistakes is an empowering feeling, isn't it? Now ~ if we could just eliminate them altogether!
Sarah Cross
sounds like she has much more insight into whats going on than she gives herself credit for. If He is competing for attention than he isn't someone I'd want around my kids.
DearBubbie
Nodding, nodding Rebecca and Sarah. Key here also is - he probably won't change. And also what Rebecca said - when they're out of their cute stage, things will probably get worse. I think she's hoping he will change. . .
Janet Something many of we women often think we can do, and try to do-change things/people. the nurturing part of our spirit is to want to make everything better...kiss the boo-boos away.
David
It is never good when your hopeful and dream man, competes for attention with your children and others. And in his late 30's...not good at all. He is set in his ways, granted some people can change. But I gather that he is used to being pampered, and being number one. Honey find a real man and one that can be a great addition to your household, instead of a deterrent.
Tatiana AGREED!! If he resents the attention you give your children, he should be OUT THE DOOR! TRUST me, I know what I'm talking about on this one....I had a very bad experience with my daughter with a bad boyfriend. Enough said.
Michael Even if it could change (which I personally doubt), it wouldn't happen fast enough.Keep looking.
·
Karis
Wow ~ this one is a toughie. We always want our mates to love our children. That's human nature. They are young enough, but if they have a strong relationship with their own father (which wasn't mentioned), may not be emotionally mature enough to separate the two. As for the boyfriend...he's dating a woman with kids and as such, it would be nice to be a part of the "brood"...he kind of signed on for it by dating a woman with kids. That being said, it takes time from all parties to build solid and trusting relationships...especially with young children who may not trust their environment and subconsciously not wanting to get hurt.And...dating and living together are also entirely different animals. If this couple decides to live together the dynamics will change. It is not this mans responsibility to support the activities of the children ~ sure, it would be nice, but he has a life outside of the "brood" ~ mom does not.I blended my young children with a man and his 2 children many years ago (our daughters were only 3 when we met). My children had/have a wonderful relationship with their own father and no need to look elsewhere for a father figure. The same was true of my step-children. When we moved in together, our dynamics changed and we were BOTH more physically supportive of the schedules that needed to be kept. We both shuttled each others kids around, though I did much more so than he. I think that's just me as a mom. I didn't complain and looked at the time as an opportunity to bond with all the kids.... See MoreThe relationships that were formed were all different and always evolved. I was closer with his children than he ever was with mine. I knew he cared about them, but I never insisted that he love or support them. I did insist he love and support me, as his spouse.We have now been divorced for 5 years. The relationships that remain intact are the most beautiful. Our collective 5 now-adult children remain best friends and all live within 10 minutes walking distance of one another. They never refer to one another as step-brother, or step-sister. That is the silver lining that was my cloud of divorce.Sorry for the long post Bubbie. This one hit a few chords :-)
Chris
That is great Karis!
Karis
Chris ~ they are all amazing kids. And I forgot to mention that I remain in constant contact with my step-children. I can't say the same for my ex-husband with my children. He does see them occasionally, but only if they happen to be with his kids.My step-son has his mother and I listed as his "parents" on FB, omitting his dad. Speaks volumes, in the end. When I'm asked how many children I have my response has always been "5". I never divorced the kids and take great pride in my part in raising them...ALL!!... See MoreTough topic all the way around.
Sarah How about before we damn the man and tell the gal to pitch in the towel - They plan a outing together. A Camping Trip would be perfect. This is not only a bonding opprotunity it is a situation he can't opt out of. Once you got him out there he will be forced to work with the kids/family as a whole. It could be eye opening. I say a 2 day camping ... See Moretrip to a place where they have some fun activities would be great - like canoeing etc. Sometimes its hard to bond with other people's kids, that doesn't mean the guy doesn't care... maybe he just needs that break through moment.
Rebecca
Interesting topic. With kids of that age, there is going to be a long time that this guy would be a father figure. You have to make sure you make the right choice for you and for them and realize that you are making a decision for those kids that they have no choice in. If he is not going to attach after two years, then he's not going to. He's ... See Morenot concerned with helping the kids through the adjustment that they are going through. C'mon. He's had more than ample opportunity and he obviously realizes that it is difficult for you. If he's not willing to get outside of himself and do his best for you and for those kids, he doesn't have it in him for whatever reason. Either decide that your choice for you is more important than the right choice for your kids, or send him packing and wish him well. Your children deserve an engaged step-father and if he hasn't given it his best in 2 years' time, he won't and you'll be stuck for the rest of your life trying to force your picture of a happy family when you just chose the wrong guy. I have 3 boys and there are plenty of men willing to give it their whole heart - it's a matter of which one is right for them, and for you, because it can't be just you, and it can't be just them. Don't settle for less just to keep the companionship of a man who doesn't fulfill one of the biggest desires of a woman - a loving, engaged family. You will never be happy with such big part of your heart unsatisfied.
Karis
Sarah ~ I think that is a stellar idea. Camping wouldn't be my "personal" choice unless it was a B&B campground ;-) ... but an excursion for a couple of days of some kind. You do bring up a good point for the guy as well. As I said, it all takes time.
Janet I am in full agreement with Rebecca. Two years is plenty of time for things to happen naturally. Don't believe in 'forcing' a relationship, which all of the mentioned bonding exercises/lessons suggest.
Sarah
when I was Young day to day life was not enough to bond me and my step father. We damn near hated eachother - but as I matured and we were forced through DIFFICULT situations together we bonded. We are VERY VERY close now. These kids are young and may be giveing off the "you aren't my daddy" vibes. Good Luck to the Gal making the decisions!
Michelle
Would he ever be the kind of father you would admire? What does all of this predict about the kind of step-parent he will be to your children? Has he ever participated in parenting workshops? Most importantly, Is he even open to talking about any of this, or does he just turn a deaf ear? Sorry, but it sounds to me like you have reached make-it-or-break-it time...
Chris Mucklow Meyer
Sarah hit the nail on the head. Kids can really send the signal to go away! It takes a strong person to love them anyway. Her step dad was probably a very strong person and a good man. I hope those traits work out for me in the end with my step daughter. I only wish I had had the chance with her when she was a very young child, not at 17 yrs ... See Moreold. My husband have talked about adopting from the Foster care system here in Kentucky. And boy don't I know that it will most likely be very rocky and heart breaking at times. (Maybe you could address that topic another day Bubbie!)Communication is key between this woman and man she is dating. He has to be all for it. If she is not openly asking him, she may come to find out that he may not ever really be interested in being a family. Then, the ball is all in her court.
Chris Mucklow Meyer
Karis. Your story is wonderful. My ex that I lived with for several years has a daughter the same age as me. We are still very close friends and I love her children like they were my own family. Her husband and I also chat on the phone if he happens to answer. I also keep in touch with my ex's, ex wife, who is a wonderful Mother and ... See MoreGrandmother! My ex was very selfish with his time and I made the effort to spend more time with his family and Grandchildren than he did. Some men do NOT outgrow the attention needing stage. So Bubbie, tell this woman that is asking for advice, that I found that if a man is not interested in giving up "his" time, he will not share his time better with age!!!!
David Wood
After 2 years into the relationship and still no bonding with your children, as young as they are. Something is not right, over the years I have dated women with very young to teenage children. I never had a problem bonding, no matter how young or old. He needs to find a common interest they can all be comfortable with. Does he scold the children when your not around? Does he try to take an interest in each one, and do fun things with them? If not I would think about moving on.
Karis
Interesting twist to my blended family story Chris...my first husband (father of my children) and my step-children (from my second husband) are also VERY close. He also accepted them as HIS own because of the relationship they had with our children. This past Christmas at the dinner table was: My first husband, his partner, myself and my 5 children. Interesting choice of where to spend Christmas evening for my step-children I would say. Again, very telling. (Do you need a flow-chart?) :-)
David
My first wife had a 3 month old son when I met her, I raised him as my own for 17 years even after she left he lived with me. To this day he calls me dad because we bonded so well, and I consider his boys as my grand-sons. Didn't mead to get off the topic.
Chris
Karis, I am following that flow chart just fine. We had many Christmas/Thanksgiving dinners like that. I offered to hold the dinner at our home once because there would be so many guests crammed into Grandma's little condo. My ex blew his stack! He did not want his own Grandchildren running around the house... they could break something. I ... See Morejust couldn't believe what I was hearing. I guess he thought his "things" were more precious than the family gathering. It would not have been a problem on my part to put such said "things" out of the reach of little fingers! Again, it boils down to the importance of family.
Fri at 11:08am · · Report
Karis
David ~ I think any of the "off topic" experiences may assist this woman. Collectively many of us have dealt with similar circumstances. What screams out loud and clear to me is this: 1) People don't change, not all that much; 2) A needy person is a needy person, putting their needs above all others...a mother of young children that has her ... See Morepriorities set to be those of her children should not have to give into the needs of late-30-something adult male; and 3) It sounds as though this woman, who cares for this man a great deal, also cares for the well-being of her children. It doesn't sound like this man fits the "full package" bill that both she and her kids deserve.Time to start fresh...
Judy
End it. Period.
Chris
David, my real father died before I was born and my Mom and Dad married when I was a toddler. He adopted me and raised me as his own. My Grandparents that live with me now that I care for, are not "blood" related but they always treated me as real Grandparents. I always love it when someone tells me I look like my Dad or my Grandmother. We all ... See Morejust smile. My Mother was very lucky to have found someone willing to take on a toddler and a woman that had a horrific experience finding her new husband dead. Mom was only 18 yrs old when this happened. She did not even know she was pregnant yet. Big undertaking for a man in his early twenties. My parents are still married.
Judy
My step father didn't try to be my dad but he did charm me in other ways and still does to this day. I made sure he was a huge part of my wedding day too. He's loved and taken great care of my mother for 28 years and now he's all of the sudden having to have chemo treatments three weeks a month. My dad's gone three years now and he's been even ... See Moremore of a dad than my "own" dad was. I think I'll start calling him dad now. Just thought of that. I think he'll like it during his final days with us.
Rebecca
All great posts... I wonder, if he hears her needs and it remains unresolved, he's jealous of her attention towards the kids, if he puts himself to the side of the biggest part his lady's life because it doesn't revolve around him, might there be a thread of self-centeredness and lack of empathy in other parts of their relationship? Maybe, if you look closely? If you really want to, that is? We all see what we want to see until we're ready to see it with honest eyes.
Rebecca
Judy, great story of love for your mother, and in turn, love for her children. Wow. I think calling him Dad would be an incredible gift...because, in fact, it sounds like he's been one without the name. My heart is with you during a very diffcult time for him and for the people that love him.
Rocco
As a man who has dated ladies with children who never has trouble connecting because I am "Made To Entertain Children", as I have been told, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he needs to find some kind of common ground with them to build from. Sports, cartoons, kids movies, school, ..... SOMETHING.... and then he needs to interact ... See Morewith them in a solo capacity without your influence for an hour or two at a time... not much more... not much less.... THEN if it doesnt' work out with them kick him to the curb.. nicely, of course... RAT
Chris
Ah, Rocco, I knew you would like this page. A bunch of writers with opinions... you will fit right in! I can attest that Rocco is made to entertain children!The only worry I would have with any man I am dating taking my kids solo, would be a trust issue these days. Do your background checks ladies. And be careful that their Dad does not have ... See Morea major problem with this idea. Rocco, how would you feel about your daughter spending solo time with your ex's "new" boyfriend? And how would you handle it?
Rose
If this man isn't connecting with your children now, he probably never will. Unfortunately, if he isn't connecting with your children, he's not really connecting with you either.
Rebecca
Rose! Concise and so right. Wish I could write like that!
DearBubbie
Don't you hate it when someone says something in two sentences that takes you a page and a half to write?!? Way to go, Rose. Incredibly -there are exceptions. . .I tried connecting with my husband's kids - but they simply don't want to connect. Fortunately, my husband never blamed me, but kind of saw his kids in a different light. But I digress. ..
DearBubbie
Judy - thank you so much for sharing that. You and Chris have great Dads. Your Moms did good by you. .
Chris
Yes, sometimes I even need to remind my Mom! Thanks Jules!
Rose
Thank you for the compliments :-)
Maria
You'll eventually wind up fighting. Your children are a part of you forever. There will be growing problems as the kids develop and become teens. They will need a father figure. Sounds like this person won't be there for them, so he will be no partner to you. Save yourself heartache, end it now!
Signed, Should We End It?"
These comments come from our DearBubbie Facebook Page. Of course we'd love to hear from you, too!
Lyn
If he isn't there for your children, is there really a future in this relationship? You might still date him, but I think I'd keep my eyes open for someone who does relate to the children and would bond with them and more. But that's just mho. Good luck!
Chris
How old are the kids? And how do they feel about bonding with another man that is not their Father? Bonding with a child can be tough even when you want to with all of your heart. And what do you mean by "there is no support?"
Richard
I suppose the "thinning of the herd" principle does not apply. Cats (and Rex) will always be there in a pinch...
DearBubbie
I'm so sorry to leave out the kids ages. I edit A TON to fit in the word limit. Two nine-year old boys and one six-year old girl. They do sports, but he'll opt out of watching them and leave that to Mother (even though he does sports himself). He picks and chooses - rather than really being a part of the brood.
Janet Bishop Castro
His actions indicate what kind of step father he would be. He is not only NOT supportive of the kids...he is not supportive of the mother. If he won't become part of the family, he will always be an outsider, and that won't work.
Chris Mucklow Meyer
I think at such a young age that the Mother really needs to be concerned about finding someone that can bond better with the kids. But even at that young age the kids could be giving off vibes that they don't want him around and maybe he is respecting that. Has she been on her own for long? The state offers an excellent class on dealing with ... See Morechildren of a divorce. When my husband divorced, I found it absolutely necessary to attend that class with him, so I could try to relate to what his 17 yr old daughter was going through. Her future step Dad did not. And even though she has not bonded with either step parent at least I can relate and empathize with what she was going through. Boys and girls handle divorce differently and the ages have different reaction levels as well. See if she can get the boyfriend to attend a class like this. It is a few hours, one night. If he shows no interest, that can be important. He may have no intention of ever wanting to bond. And maybe he just doesn't know what to do. Has she actually brought up her concern to him? Some men are just awkward around kids. Doesn't mean they don't love them any less. This is a tough subject because we don't know all of the details. Meeting a future spouse with children has a lot of issues to tackle. You need a very loving and understanding partner. If he is not those two things, I would move on!
The Follow-UPFOLLOW-UP From the Mailbox: "It is so hard to find the right person. He is RIGHT in every way, but to be honest...it's like I'm dealing with another child who wants attention. Sometimes I feel like he resents the attention I give to my kids, even though he thinks I'm a great mother. He's everything, but the ONE thing.... . .will this change over time?"
Janet
Have to laugh. I had one like that. He actually got upset when I bought sweat bands for my daughter (she had taken up racquetball), and didn't pick up anything for him! Notice the word 'h-a-d'.
Karis
Oooo.....more information. Okay, not likely that he will change pouting for the attention, especially if he's in his late 30s. Those are personality traits that are probably pretty firmly ingrained. My ex-husband pouted too. Notice the word "e-x".Funny Janet! Did I marry your ex?
DearBubbie
Marriage makes problems worse - not better. When someone didn't connect with my dog, they were out the door. And my dog tested my dates. I didn't care WHO they were. Yes, I was wrong - I was SINGLE for FOREVER as a result. Now I have someone who LOVED my dogs, barks and all. I desperately wanted to bond with my husband's kids - but they were ... See Morereally too different. (In example, DearBubbie is girly-girl; his 19-year old daughter wanted a BB gun and a knife for Xmas). BubbyHubby feels that his kids were part of his PAST life that I didn't choose - so it's up to me if I wanted to be a part of it or not. However, he didn't have custody. I think if any man makes you feel badly about having kids - or you start thinking things would be different if you didn't have the kids, I'd get rid of him quickly. Having kids was probably the best thing you've ever done and being a great Mom is a priority. If the man in your life doesn't 'get that' and love you for that, it's time to let go. The RIGHT person for you and your kids is out there. It just can't be the right person for you. . . Karis - it is amazing the tight bond that you helped created between all your kids. I was always surprised to hear you say you had five kids - when I knew you biologically had three. That is wonderful This guy has no kids - I think she needs to move on - unless he has some kind of breakthrough.
Rebecca
Caution: You want a partner, not competition for your children. Does he not come to their events because they are the center of attention, and not him? Is he uncomfortable in those situations and somehow finds a way to bring the attention back to him by moping, withdrawing, passively getting angry, finding something else to do and only being there... See More for things on his terms - regardless of your feelngs? After two years, if there were going to be the connection you want for them, there would be one already. The kids are only going to become more self-centered and demanding as they get out of the "cute" stage that yours are in. If he can't take it now, how will he take it then? Does he realize how important this is to you? If he does, he's either incapable or unwilling. Is either one something you can live with?
DearBubbie
Janet - I always NOD with your comments. You're an excellent Bubbie contributor.
Janet I've made alot of mistakes. LOL Still make some, but not the same ones.
Karis Janet ~ learning from our past mistakes is an empowering feeling, isn't it? Now ~ if we could just eliminate them altogether!
Sarah Cross
sounds like she has much more insight into whats going on than she gives herself credit for. If He is competing for attention than he isn't someone I'd want around my kids.
DearBubbie
Nodding, nodding Rebecca and Sarah. Key here also is - he probably won't change. And also what Rebecca said - when they're out of their cute stage, things will probably get worse. I think she's hoping he will change. . .
Janet Something many of we women often think we can do, and try to do-change things/people. the nurturing part of our spirit is to want to make everything better...kiss the boo-boos away.
David
It is never good when your hopeful and dream man, competes for attention with your children and others. And in his late 30's...not good at all. He is set in his ways, granted some people can change. But I gather that he is used to being pampered, and being number one. Honey find a real man and one that can be a great addition to your household, instead of a deterrent.
Tatiana AGREED!! If he resents the attention you give your children, he should be OUT THE DOOR! TRUST me, I know what I'm talking about on this one....I had a very bad experience with my daughter with a bad boyfriend. Enough said.
Michael Even if it could change (which I personally doubt), it wouldn't happen fast enough.Keep looking.
·
Karis
Wow ~ this one is a toughie. We always want our mates to love our children. That's human nature. They are young enough, but if they have a strong relationship with their own father (which wasn't mentioned), may not be emotionally mature enough to separate the two. As for the boyfriend...he's dating a woman with kids and as such, it would be nice to be a part of the "brood"...he kind of signed on for it by dating a woman with kids. That being said, it takes time from all parties to build solid and trusting relationships...especially with young children who may not trust their environment and subconsciously not wanting to get hurt.And...dating and living together are also entirely different animals. If this couple decides to live together the dynamics will change. It is not this mans responsibility to support the activities of the children ~ sure, it would be nice, but he has a life outside of the "brood" ~ mom does not.I blended my young children with a man and his 2 children many years ago (our daughters were only 3 when we met). My children had/have a wonderful relationship with their own father and no need to look elsewhere for a father figure. The same was true of my step-children. When we moved in together, our dynamics changed and we were BOTH more physically supportive of the schedules that needed to be kept. We both shuttled each others kids around, though I did much more so than he. I think that's just me as a mom. I didn't complain and looked at the time as an opportunity to bond with all the kids.... See MoreThe relationships that were formed were all different and always evolved. I was closer with his children than he ever was with mine. I knew he cared about them, but I never insisted that he love or support them. I did insist he love and support me, as his spouse.We have now been divorced for 5 years. The relationships that remain intact are the most beautiful. Our collective 5 now-adult children remain best friends and all live within 10 minutes walking distance of one another. They never refer to one another as step-brother, or step-sister. That is the silver lining that was my cloud of divorce.Sorry for the long post Bubbie. This one hit a few chords :-)
Chris
That is great Karis!
Karis
Chris ~ they are all amazing kids. And I forgot to mention that I remain in constant contact with my step-children. I can't say the same for my ex-husband with my children. He does see them occasionally, but only if they happen to be with his kids.My step-son has his mother and I listed as his "parents" on FB, omitting his dad. Speaks volumes, in the end. When I'm asked how many children I have my response has always been "5". I never divorced the kids and take great pride in my part in raising them...ALL!!... See MoreTough topic all the way around.
Sarah How about before we damn the man and tell the gal to pitch in the towel - They plan a outing together. A Camping Trip would be perfect. This is not only a bonding opprotunity it is a situation he can't opt out of. Once you got him out there he will be forced to work with the kids/family as a whole. It could be eye opening. I say a 2 day camping ... See Moretrip to a place where they have some fun activities would be great - like canoeing etc. Sometimes its hard to bond with other people's kids, that doesn't mean the guy doesn't care... maybe he just needs that break through moment.
Rebecca
Interesting topic. With kids of that age, there is going to be a long time that this guy would be a father figure. You have to make sure you make the right choice for you and for them and realize that you are making a decision for those kids that they have no choice in. If he is not going to attach after two years, then he's not going to. He's ... See Morenot concerned with helping the kids through the adjustment that they are going through. C'mon. He's had more than ample opportunity and he obviously realizes that it is difficult for you. If he's not willing to get outside of himself and do his best for you and for those kids, he doesn't have it in him for whatever reason. Either decide that your choice for you is more important than the right choice for your kids, or send him packing and wish him well. Your children deserve an engaged step-father and if he hasn't given it his best in 2 years' time, he won't and you'll be stuck for the rest of your life trying to force your picture of a happy family when you just chose the wrong guy. I have 3 boys and there are plenty of men willing to give it their whole heart - it's a matter of which one is right for them, and for you, because it can't be just you, and it can't be just them. Don't settle for less just to keep the companionship of a man who doesn't fulfill one of the biggest desires of a woman - a loving, engaged family. You will never be happy with such big part of your heart unsatisfied.
Karis
Sarah ~ I think that is a stellar idea. Camping wouldn't be my "personal" choice unless it was a B&B campground ;-) ... but an excursion for a couple of days of some kind. You do bring up a good point for the guy as well. As I said, it all takes time.
Janet I am in full agreement with Rebecca. Two years is plenty of time for things to happen naturally. Don't believe in 'forcing' a relationship, which all of the mentioned bonding exercises/lessons suggest.
Sarah
when I was Young day to day life was not enough to bond me and my step father. We damn near hated eachother - but as I matured and we were forced through DIFFICULT situations together we bonded. We are VERY VERY close now. These kids are young and may be giveing off the "you aren't my daddy" vibes. Good Luck to the Gal making the decisions!
Michelle
Would he ever be the kind of father you would admire? What does all of this predict about the kind of step-parent he will be to your children? Has he ever participated in parenting workshops? Most importantly, Is he even open to talking about any of this, or does he just turn a deaf ear? Sorry, but it sounds to me like you have reached make-it-or-break-it time...
Chris Mucklow Meyer
Sarah hit the nail on the head. Kids can really send the signal to go away! It takes a strong person to love them anyway. Her step dad was probably a very strong person and a good man. I hope those traits work out for me in the end with my step daughter. I only wish I had had the chance with her when she was a very young child, not at 17 yrs ... See Moreold. My husband have talked about adopting from the Foster care system here in Kentucky. And boy don't I know that it will most likely be very rocky and heart breaking at times. (Maybe you could address that topic another day Bubbie!)Communication is key between this woman and man she is dating. He has to be all for it. If she is not openly asking him, she may come to find out that he may not ever really be interested in being a family. Then, the ball is all in her court.
Chris Mucklow Meyer
Karis. Your story is wonderful. My ex that I lived with for several years has a daughter the same age as me. We are still very close friends and I love her children like they were my own family. Her husband and I also chat on the phone if he happens to answer. I also keep in touch with my ex's, ex wife, who is a wonderful Mother and ... See MoreGrandmother! My ex was very selfish with his time and I made the effort to spend more time with his family and Grandchildren than he did. Some men do NOT outgrow the attention needing stage. So Bubbie, tell this woman that is asking for advice, that I found that if a man is not interested in giving up "his" time, he will not share his time better with age!!!!
David Wood
After 2 years into the relationship and still no bonding with your children, as young as they are. Something is not right, over the years I have dated women with very young to teenage children. I never had a problem bonding, no matter how young or old. He needs to find a common interest they can all be comfortable with. Does he scold the children when your not around? Does he try to take an interest in each one, and do fun things with them? If not I would think about moving on.
Karis
Interesting twist to my blended family story Chris...my first husband (father of my children) and my step-children (from my second husband) are also VERY close. He also accepted them as HIS own because of the relationship they had with our children. This past Christmas at the dinner table was: My first husband, his partner, myself and my 5 children. Interesting choice of where to spend Christmas evening for my step-children I would say. Again, very telling. (Do you need a flow-chart?) :-)
David
My first wife had a 3 month old son when I met her, I raised him as my own for 17 years even after she left he lived with me. To this day he calls me dad because we bonded so well, and I consider his boys as my grand-sons. Didn't mead to get off the topic.
Chris
Karis, I am following that flow chart just fine. We had many Christmas/Thanksgiving dinners like that. I offered to hold the dinner at our home once because there would be so many guests crammed into Grandma's little condo. My ex blew his stack! He did not want his own Grandchildren running around the house... they could break something. I ... See Morejust couldn't believe what I was hearing. I guess he thought his "things" were more precious than the family gathering. It would not have been a problem on my part to put such said "things" out of the reach of little fingers! Again, it boils down to the importance of family.
Fri at 11:08am · · Report
Karis
David ~ I think any of the "off topic" experiences may assist this woman. Collectively many of us have dealt with similar circumstances. What screams out loud and clear to me is this: 1) People don't change, not all that much; 2) A needy person is a needy person, putting their needs above all others...a mother of young children that has her ... See Morepriorities set to be those of her children should not have to give into the needs of late-30-something adult male; and 3) It sounds as though this woman, who cares for this man a great deal, also cares for the well-being of her children. It doesn't sound like this man fits the "full package" bill that both she and her kids deserve.Time to start fresh...
Judy
End it. Period.
Chris
David, my real father died before I was born and my Mom and Dad married when I was a toddler. He adopted me and raised me as his own. My Grandparents that live with me now that I care for, are not "blood" related but they always treated me as real Grandparents. I always love it when someone tells me I look like my Dad or my Grandmother. We all ... See Morejust smile. My Mother was very lucky to have found someone willing to take on a toddler and a woman that had a horrific experience finding her new husband dead. Mom was only 18 yrs old when this happened. She did not even know she was pregnant yet. Big undertaking for a man in his early twenties. My parents are still married.
Judy
My step father didn't try to be my dad but he did charm me in other ways and still does to this day. I made sure he was a huge part of my wedding day too. He's loved and taken great care of my mother for 28 years and now he's all of the sudden having to have chemo treatments three weeks a month. My dad's gone three years now and he's been even ... See Moremore of a dad than my "own" dad was. I think I'll start calling him dad now. Just thought of that. I think he'll like it during his final days with us.
Rebecca
All great posts... I wonder, if he hears her needs and it remains unresolved, he's jealous of her attention towards the kids, if he puts himself to the side of the biggest part his lady's life because it doesn't revolve around him, might there be a thread of self-centeredness and lack of empathy in other parts of their relationship? Maybe, if you look closely? If you really want to, that is? We all see what we want to see until we're ready to see it with honest eyes.
Rebecca
Judy, great story of love for your mother, and in turn, love for her children. Wow. I think calling him Dad would be an incredible gift...because, in fact, it sounds like he's been one without the name. My heart is with you during a very diffcult time for him and for the people that love him.
Rocco
As a man who has dated ladies with children who never has trouble connecting because I am "Made To Entertain Children", as I have been told, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he needs to find some kind of common ground with them to build from. Sports, cartoons, kids movies, school, ..... SOMETHING.... and then he needs to interact ... See Morewith them in a solo capacity without your influence for an hour or two at a time... not much more... not much less.... THEN if it doesnt' work out with them kick him to the curb.. nicely, of course... RAT
Chris
Ah, Rocco, I knew you would like this page. A bunch of writers with opinions... you will fit right in! I can attest that Rocco is made to entertain children!The only worry I would have with any man I am dating taking my kids solo, would be a trust issue these days. Do your background checks ladies. And be careful that their Dad does not have ... See Morea major problem with this idea. Rocco, how would you feel about your daughter spending solo time with your ex's "new" boyfriend? And how would you handle it?
Rose
If this man isn't connecting with your children now, he probably never will. Unfortunately, if he isn't connecting with your children, he's not really connecting with you either.
Rebecca
Rose! Concise and so right. Wish I could write like that!
DearBubbie
Don't you hate it when someone says something in two sentences that takes you a page and a half to write?!? Way to go, Rose. Incredibly -there are exceptions. . .I tried connecting with my husband's kids - but they simply don't want to connect. Fortunately, my husband never blamed me, but kind of saw his kids in a different light. But I digress. ..
DearBubbie
Judy - thank you so much for sharing that. You and Chris have great Dads. Your Moms did good by you. .
Chris
Yes, sometimes I even need to remind my Mom! Thanks Jules!
Rose
Thank you for the compliments :-)
Maria
You'll eventually wind up fighting. Your children are a part of you forever. There will be growing problems as the kids develop and become teens. They will need a father figure. Sounds like this person won't be there for them, so he will be no partner to you. Save yourself heartache, end it now!
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