Oh, Dear Bubbie –
Well, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you and all the other Bubbies for your words of encouragement and support. You really helped me through this and for that I am truly appreciative.
It turns out that the threats were more psychological games, because when it came down to it, he did NOT insist on ½ of everything. His main concern was child support, which I will not be asking for because a) I won’t get it anyway if he isn’t working (the mediator said that, given his recent history and his appearance and his unpreparedness for the meeting, she doubted he’d be holding a job any time soon), and b) I can make a request at a later date and pursue child support if I find out he has become employed and is making a decent wage (both my attorney and the mediator told me that I can pursue it later even if the agreement now says “no child support”).
In addition to his fears about child support (and I think that was his main concern), he also managed to accrue over $60000 in debt totally unbeknownst to me. Yep. In addition to the $20,000 that I have to eat (I’ll have pay it when the house sells and lose most of my profit), he also incurred a bunch more debt that I never knew about. No wonder the man has an ulcer that won’t heal!!!
He had borrowed multiple times against an old life insurance policy he has and owes $18,000 for his loans; he was overpaid disability wages AFTER he recuperated and began working before we got married and during our first two or so years together (he always told me this was just a couple thousand, and he would never tell me the entire amount because he knew I’d be “upset”) and now owes the government over $20,000; he took out a student loan for his oldest son from his first marriage, never made payments on it and now owes $8000; he hid some medical bills that he thought we were covered by insurance but were not, so rather than tell me about it, he hid them, and that’s another $3,000; he owes back child support to his ex to the tune of $4,200 he owes $4,000 for some computer equipment he bought before he and I were married; and various other smaller debts.
This all came to light after I had presented what I thought were all of our household debts and assets, and the mediator asked him if he knew of any more debts. He said yes, and he proceeded to go through his files and find each of these. My jaw hit the floor with each announcement. I just kept saying, “I never knew.” I have NO idea what the hell he did with the money, because I was paying all the household expenses. I’m clueless.
Last night, he kept trying to justify it by saying he “had to borrow money to try to pay off some medical expenses” because he knew we were hurting for money due to his lack of a decent income, and that he had to help his son when he kept begging him to take a student loan for him. He kept insisting it was “perfectly okay” to conduct himself this way because he “was never going to let this affect” me. He was going to see to it that I was never liable for any of it. Um, IT’S CONSIDERED MARITAL DEBT, YOU ASS! He just kept insisting that I would never have been on the hook for any of it (bullshit) so I didn’t need to be aware of it.
He tried telling the mediator that he really wanted to take my son with him to CA, but that he wouldn’t do that because I’m a good mother. Like my son would ever go with him, and like he could ever take care of him when he can’t even care for himself. The last couple times he was supposed to watch him, he didn’t even feed him lunch, and I found my son swimming unsupervised one day while the idiot was supposed to be watching him. He will always deny that my son has issues with him and that he has told various teachers that he doesn’t like his dad much and doesn’t feel “safe” with him. He is in such total denial about everything in his life.
So, because he picked that arbitrary date of 12/11,I told him I was going to have him removed, he now has to stick with it. He has to pack up his shit, ship it, and get out. I had to pay him $4,000 so he can ship his belongings and cover other expenses, and I buy him a ticket as I originally offered (with a limit on it of $200), and he goes. The day cost me close to $30,000 all in all, but it’s worth it to be rid of the insanity. AND, if I find out he’s working later on, I can try to collect child support, so his big ace in the hole may not turn out to be such a big win after all.
I ran to the bank yesterday afternoon and cashed in an IRA, got cashier’s checks to pay the lawyer to handle the filing (I don’t have the time, and she’ll get it on the docket immediately), and I paid him his lousy $4,000 last night and had him sign a receipt for it. The lawyer says she may have this done by Christmas. Merry Christmas to me!
I am relieved. I spoke with a good friend of mine this morning, and he said I sound lighter already and the life and happiness is returning to my voice. This person has known me since 7th grade, so he has been there (although long distance) every step of the way. He has watched him go from a “normal,” functioning human being to a psychotic, delusional mess, and he’s been a real sanity check for me at times. Only a handful of people knew what was really going on, as his old friends and family up north were totally convinced by him that I was cheating and doing all sorts of things I couldn’t possibly have been doing, but they all believed him and he always sounded “fine” when they spoke with him. This whole experience was like being trapped inside a big soundproof bubble and screaming at the top of your lungs, but nobody could hear.
On to the next chapter, huh? The only thing he did for me on a daily basis was sit home all day and let my dogs out, so that’s my only real concern now -- how to get the dogs let out without having to run home at lunchtime every day. Tells you how much of a contribution he made in the scheme of the household operations.
I can NOT believe all that has transpired this week. Thank goodness that mediator was able to get him to agree on everything. My only loss is the child support. I’ve got my son (with visits allowed ONLY in our city of residence and at a site chosen by me, and he can NOT drive with him in his car, and I made added a special clause that my son is not allowed to fly to visit his father anywhere until he’s 18, so he MUST come here), and I’ll have peace in my house again. Come on, December 9th! Can’t come fast enough for me!
Thank you, thank, you, thank you!
DearBubbie follow-up to letter writer
Jody, I am in tears.
While he's a classic case of an abuser, YOU are one unusual woman. You have exhibited such FOCUS and CLARITY. I am speechless at what you achieved.
I can't wait to reprint all of this. You know what, Jody? If you can get through what you got through yesterday - you really CAN do anything. If you said, I want to be a millionaire - with ALL MY HEART, I believe you could be. Jody, you don't just talk the talk - you WALK THE WALK.
Do you realize what you accomplished? Do you have any idea? You TOOK back your life. You got your life back and saved your son. I don't think you realize the magnitude of your achievement. This is better than graduating from college. THIS is one hell of a story. . .and I can't WAIT for the next wonderful chapter.
Kudos to the att'y. . she facilitated this. Shocking. Well done. Cost you $30grand? That's ONE year of college. You got your life back, Jody. Tread lightly around the house. December 11 IS right around the corner. Be cool. Don't show your cards. LOVE yourself, your Mom, your son and your renewed life.
Congratulations, Jody. I'm in disbelief. You're my inspiration. And you'll be one for others, too.
Saturday, November 20, 2010
Part Four: She Dreads Going Home Every Day
First, I’m calling the lawyer I met with before to set up an appointment for tomorrow. My mother actually got so uncontrollably upset by the events this weekend that SHE put in a call to the lawyer on her cell, which is for “emergencies only.” The att'y told her she wants to get moving in light of the events of late regarding the girlfriend, so she wants me to fill out some planning forms today and see her tomorrow. I will give her this chance to change my mind about her being in “my court.” As I said, she’s tough, but I just didn’t get the impression last time that she would do anything to protect me and fight for me, and that she was going to just play by the book and watch me hand over a portion of everything I own when the lousy S.O.B. doesn’t deserve a penny.
I don’t mind at all if you post my stuff for the other Bubbies. I have always loved reading some of the great advice they give, which is why I decided to solicit your opinion on all this. I know you remove specifics and protect my identity, so go for it!
I am fortunate that my DH has his next victim lined up, because he is willing to go to her, however, his sister has given him the advice that he should wait until we have a meeting with a mediator to discuss child custody arrangements and other issues, so he said he can’t go until that happens. I told him that may be quite a ways down the line, but that is what he is saying now.
On the other hand, he and his “friend” have chosen December 11 as the day he can fly to be with her. No, I do not know the significance of the 9th, but they picked a day. So, I asked him, “if you’ve picked a date, does that mean I’m supposed to buy you a one-way ticket out of here?” He said yes. I told him that I’m not making any such purchase if he is going to insist that he first attend a meeting with the mediator, and I certainly cannot guarantee that a meeting will happen prior to Dec. 11. So, the good news is he’s willing to go, and he will be FAR away, but the bad news is that he has been advised not to go until after that meeting.
He said he knows he won’t be able to afford to return for quite some time once he gets out there, so he wants to have the meeting while he can and let me handle the court appearances for the divorce myself. I’ll see what the lawyer says about all this. I have my own list of what I’m willing to do, and I’m not eating the debt I’ve had to incur as a result of HIM not contributing unless he’s willing to make a major concession on his part, and I’m sure you can guess what that is.
It was quite a weekend with him and his ongoing head games. He does little things to annoy, like turning the TV back on every time I turn it off (because NOBODY is in the room and nobody is watching it). He turns it on, then goes and sits on the lanai. I turn it off. He walks back in and turns it on, then walks back out and sits on the lanai. He is such a child. I have the house on the market, so I’m always trying to keep the clutter picked up. He has a slew of stomach medicines because of the ulcer, like Tums, Brioschi, and some prescription antacids. I cleared all of this off the vanity and off the top of the medicine cabinet months ago to keep the bathroom looking neat. This weekend, he went back to his old habit of storing all these bottles across the top of the medicine cabinet. I saw them on Saturday and took them down. The next time he used the bathroom, he put them back up. I took them down and asked him to leave them down because it looked so sloppy. He put them back up.
This went on all weekend. I asked him again this morning to PLEASE Keep them down so the bathroom looks neater. He always has to get defensive and accuse me of something when I ask him to do something, so his response was, “why? You have a few bottles on your dresser, so what’s the difference?” I said, “having a couple of decorative lotion or spray bottles on the dresser doesn’t look sloppy because they’re attractive. Bottles of Brioschi and prescriptions stomach meds are NOT decorative and having them lined up all across the medicine cabinet is NOT attractive. It’s messy and the clultter does not look good when the house is shown.“ This is just another example of how he likes to annoy and push buttons. Like a child seeking negative attention because it’s better than none.
I started having computer problems this weekend, and I can’t prove it’s him, but I’d bet money on it. He was probably trying to make sure I couldn’t do my online banking because he didn’t want me to see the money he spent last week. He spent about $250 last week on sandwiches and other food items (even though we have a house full of food), cigarettes ($50 a carton and I’ve been asking him to quit for years for health reasons and financial ones), some stuff at Walmart, and he bought himself a computer web cam. Yep, bought a web cam when I’m struggling to pay the bills. I asked him how he can possibly justify these purchases when I’m not even able to make ends meet, and he got into some strange twisting conversation about his stomach and the phone and how he didn’t talk to “her” yesterday. Never answers the question at hand. He’s spent $500 the past month on “stuff.” You can bet I have copies of the transaction list to take to the lawyer, too. Talking to him is a real mind-blower sometimes. When he‘s guilty of something, he’ll get off on any other tangent he can think of to try and derail the conversation. I just started laughing it was so ridiculous. There is NO talking logic with him whatsoever.
As to your concern about the therapy, my son doesn’t mind at all so far. He is just warming up to her and has only started to open up about his feelings, and so far he has just cracked that door open ever so slightly. I also got him started there so she can work with his mild ADD issues, so she’s content focusing on the ADD until he feels like talking more. He did draw a hell of a picture, however, where he had me, him and our pets at one end of two sheets of paper that HE stapled together, and he drew his father way down at the other end away from everyone else. Of course he stuck a big ol’ cigarette in his dad’s mouth ‘cause he’s always out on the lanai smoking while we’re inside doing “real” stuff like homework, playing games or watching movies. It was quite a telling picture. The psychotherapist who was in the room at the time just said, “Wow.”
Well, wish me luck tomorrow, and I will heed your warning about not doing too much at once. I’ve got a ton of stuff to deal with even if I can get him out and get some peace of mind. That would be the first step, and I’ll take it a step at a time after that.
Thanks again, and I’ll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Ugh. I dread going home today. There’s nothing worse than hating to go to your own home every day.
Hugs to you for all your support.
HER NEXT LETTER: UGH SHE DREADS THIS MEETING
Hi, my dearest Bubbie –
Ugh. Meeting with lawyer was NOT pretty, and I still don’t like her, but we’re going to try the mediator route rather than a court battle, since a full court battle with Ms. Attorney representing me could run $20k - $30k, so I won’t have to deal with her other than filing the appropriate paperwork at various times. On the other hand, she assured me that she can have this whole mess resolved by the end of the year or shortly thereafter if my DH will agree on all terms set forth in the mediation.
She basically told me I’m screwed and there’s nothing she can do to prevent him from getting his hands on MY money even though he left me high and dry financially for 9 years and has been contributing nothing but a measly unemployment check for over a year. Apparently it doesn’t matter that he’s put me deep in debt, used up my savings cushion, spent his 401k money on CIGARETTES and other non-necessities and has failed to conduct himself like a responsible adult, either financially or emotionally. None of that matters in the eyes of the court. That sucks!
I get screwed for being the responsible one and for making sure my son had a good quality of life despite his father’s antics, and there’s nothing anyone can or will do to protect ME. But, the freeloading bum gets a nice-size check and can negoatiate to make me pay his way to his girlfriend’s house, and he basically gets to call the shots when it comes to custody issues, otherwise a judge could give him even more if I let this go to court.
Good news is he DOES have his next meal ticket lined up and he’s willing to go, so I have to move while he’s amenable. I had to laugh at this, however: When I told him I’d reached the breaking point with him calling his girlfriend right in front of my face while I correct homework with our son, he agreed to speak with “her” about a time when he could move.
I emailed him yesterday with the information for our date with the mediator, which is TOMORROW, Thursday, and his response was, “why are YOU in such a hurry to take this step? Why are you doing it so soon? What’s the rush?” Um, well, there’s the fact that you said you’d like me to buy your airline ticket for 12/11, and then there’s the fact that I REFUSE to continue to live with your psychological games and watch you call your girlfriend on the phone while I’m looking right at you and your son is 15 feet away… Pick a reason, ass.
I told him this morning that what he really needs to do is load all his crap in his car, drive it to his dad’s for storage, and fly from there. He said he planned on ME shipping his stuff. I said absolutely not, I can’t afford such a shipping cost and I’m already paying his airline ticket out of here. I told him maybe his girlfriend could chip in and have the stuff sent, and he said, “no, she’s broke.” LOL. I had to remind him that he has ruined me finanaiclly over these 9 years, but he still refuses to acknowledge that. He just wants to go denying what he’s done and believe that somehow I’ll come up with whatever money he needs. The nerve of him! Then he asked if I couldn’t just “hold onto his stuff” for the time being, and I laughed at that. I’m going to be downsizing to a rental (first rental in 20 years, thank you very much), and there’s NO way I’m keeping his shit! If he doesn’t take it, it’s garbage.
So, on to the mediator tomorrow. He has acknowledged that he has no clue when he’ll be able to fly back here, so putting together a parenting plan will just have to remain open-ended. We’ll come up with some way to word it tomorrow.
On the financial affidavit, he’s trying to claim all sorts of household expenses on his sheet when it’s my salary that pays for everything! He’s just amazing. I have to get him to give on the division of assets, because the profit from selling the house will be miniscule and I have to use that to pay off debts, so he really doesn’t deserve anything. I have to make him see that we should calculate what he thinks he’s getting, MINUS the debts since he brought them on us, and he should only get the result of that calculation. Yeah, right. I can dream, can’t I?
Wish me luck tomorrow. I have to hammer this out and get him on his way. This is going to be rough handling this house and all the responsibilities alone, but the only thing he did during the course of everyday life is let the dogs out since he was home anyway, and feed them in the late afternoon. I know It won’t be much different, and it will get easier when I sell the house and move to something that’s less maintenance.
He said this morning, “I can’t believe you’re doing this. It NEVER should have come to this.” My response was, “you’ve had 7 out of 9 years of me begging you to be responsible and correct your behavior, to support this family financially and emotionally, and you’ve refused to see how serious your neglect was. And I absolutely refuse to continue living under these bizarre, sick circumstances with you wooing your girlfriend right before my eyes. What did you think would happen?”
Ugh, I dread tomorrow. I warned the mediator that he is delusional and will not listen to reason, so she said she is willing to put us in separate rooms in order to get agreement on things. Wish me luck.
I don’t mind at all if you post my stuff for the other Bubbies. I have always loved reading some of the great advice they give, which is why I decided to solicit your opinion on all this. I know you remove specifics and protect my identity, so go for it!
I am fortunate that my DH has his next victim lined up, because he is willing to go to her, however, his sister has given him the advice that he should wait until we have a meeting with a mediator to discuss child custody arrangements and other issues, so he said he can’t go until that happens. I told him that may be quite a ways down the line, but that is what he is saying now.
On the other hand, he and his “friend” have chosen December 11 as the day he can fly to be with her. No, I do not know the significance of the 9th, but they picked a day. So, I asked him, “if you’ve picked a date, does that mean I’m supposed to buy you a one-way ticket out of here?” He said yes. I told him that I’m not making any such purchase if he is going to insist that he first attend a meeting with the mediator, and I certainly cannot guarantee that a meeting will happen prior to Dec. 11. So, the good news is he’s willing to go, and he will be FAR away, but the bad news is that he has been advised not to go until after that meeting.
He said he knows he won’t be able to afford to return for quite some time once he gets out there, so he wants to have the meeting while he can and let me handle the court appearances for the divorce myself. I’ll see what the lawyer says about all this. I have my own list of what I’m willing to do, and I’m not eating the debt I’ve had to incur as a result of HIM not contributing unless he’s willing to make a major concession on his part, and I’m sure you can guess what that is.
It was quite a weekend with him and his ongoing head games. He does little things to annoy, like turning the TV back on every time I turn it off (because NOBODY is in the room and nobody is watching it). He turns it on, then goes and sits on the lanai. I turn it off. He walks back in and turns it on, then walks back out and sits on the lanai. He is such a child. I have the house on the market, so I’m always trying to keep the clutter picked up. He has a slew of stomach medicines because of the ulcer, like Tums, Brioschi, and some prescription antacids. I cleared all of this off the vanity and off the top of the medicine cabinet months ago to keep the bathroom looking neat. This weekend, he went back to his old habit of storing all these bottles across the top of the medicine cabinet. I saw them on Saturday and took them down. The next time he used the bathroom, he put them back up. I took them down and asked him to leave them down because it looked so sloppy. He put them back up.
This went on all weekend. I asked him again this morning to PLEASE Keep them down so the bathroom looks neater. He always has to get defensive and accuse me of something when I ask him to do something, so his response was, “why? You have a few bottles on your dresser, so what’s the difference?” I said, “having a couple of decorative lotion or spray bottles on the dresser doesn’t look sloppy because they’re attractive. Bottles of Brioschi and prescriptions stomach meds are NOT decorative and having them lined up all across the medicine cabinet is NOT attractive. It’s messy and the clultter does not look good when the house is shown.“ This is just another example of how he likes to annoy and push buttons. Like a child seeking negative attention because it’s better than none.
I started having computer problems this weekend, and I can’t prove it’s him, but I’d bet money on it. He was probably trying to make sure I couldn’t do my online banking because he didn’t want me to see the money he spent last week. He spent about $250 last week on sandwiches and other food items (even though we have a house full of food), cigarettes ($50 a carton and I’ve been asking him to quit for years for health reasons and financial ones), some stuff at Walmart, and he bought himself a computer web cam. Yep, bought a web cam when I’m struggling to pay the bills. I asked him how he can possibly justify these purchases when I’m not even able to make ends meet, and he got into some strange twisting conversation about his stomach and the phone and how he didn’t talk to “her” yesterday. Never answers the question at hand. He’s spent $500 the past month on “stuff.” You can bet I have copies of the transaction list to take to the lawyer, too. Talking to him is a real mind-blower sometimes. When he‘s guilty of something, he’ll get off on any other tangent he can think of to try and derail the conversation. I just started laughing it was so ridiculous. There is NO talking logic with him whatsoever.
As to your concern about the therapy, my son doesn’t mind at all so far. He is just warming up to her and has only started to open up about his feelings, and so far he has just cracked that door open ever so slightly. I also got him started there so she can work with his mild ADD issues, so she’s content focusing on the ADD until he feels like talking more. He did draw a hell of a picture, however, where he had me, him and our pets at one end of two sheets of paper that HE stapled together, and he drew his father way down at the other end away from everyone else. Of course he stuck a big ol’ cigarette in his dad’s mouth ‘cause he’s always out on the lanai smoking while we’re inside doing “real” stuff like homework, playing games or watching movies. It was quite a telling picture. The psychotherapist who was in the room at the time just said, “Wow.”
Well, wish me luck tomorrow, and I will heed your warning about not doing too much at once. I’ve got a ton of stuff to deal with even if I can get him out and get some peace of mind. That would be the first step, and I’ll take it a step at a time after that.
Thanks again, and I’ll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Ugh. I dread going home today. There’s nothing worse than hating to go to your own home every day.
Hugs to you for all your support.
HER NEXT LETTER: UGH SHE DREADS THIS MEETING
Hi, my dearest Bubbie –
Ugh. Meeting with lawyer was NOT pretty, and I still don’t like her, but we’re going to try the mediator route rather than a court battle, since a full court battle with Ms. Attorney representing me could run $20k - $30k, so I won’t have to deal with her other than filing the appropriate paperwork at various times. On the other hand, she assured me that she can have this whole mess resolved by the end of the year or shortly thereafter if my DH will agree on all terms set forth in the mediation.
She basically told me I’m screwed and there’s nothing she can do to prevent him from getting his hands on MY money even though he left me high and dry financially for 9 years and has been contributing nothing but a measly unemployment check for over a year. Apparently it doesn’t matter that he’s put me deep in debt, used up my savings cushion, spent his 401k money on CIGARETTES and other non-necessities and has failed to conduct himself like a responsible adult, either financially or emotionally. None of that matters in the eyes of the court. That sucks!
I get screwed for being the responsible one and for making sure my son had a good quality of life despite his father’s antics, and there’s nothing anyone can or will do to protect ME. But, the freeloading bum gets a nice-size check and can negoatiate to make me pay his way to his girlfriend’s house, and he basically gets to call the shots when it comes to custody issues, otherwise a judge could give him even more if I let this go to court.
Good news is he DOES have his next meal ticket lined up and he’s willing to go, so I have to move while he’s amenable. I had to laugh at this, however: When I told him I’d reached the breaking point with him calling his girlfriend right in front of my face while I correct homework with our son, he agreed to speak with “her” about a time when he could move.
I emailed him yesterday with the information for our date with the mediator, which is TOMORROW, Thursday, and his response was, “why are YOU in such a hurry to take this step? Why are you doing it so soon? What’s the rush?” Um, well, there’s the fact that you said you’d like me to buy your airline ticket for 12/11, and then there’s the fact that I REFUSE to continue to live with your psychological games and watch you call your girlfriend on the phone while I’m looking right at you and your son is 15 feet away… Pick a reason, ass.
I told him this morning that what he really needs to do is load all his crap in his car, drive it to his dad’s for storage, and fly from there. He said he planned on ME shipping his stuff. I said absolutely not, I can’t afford such a shipping cost and I’m already paying his airline ticket out of here. I told him maybe his girlfriend could chip in and have the stuff sent, and he said, “no, she’s broke.” LOL. I had to remind him that he has ruined me finanaiclly over these 9 years, but he still refuses to acknowledge that. He just wants to go denying what he’s done and believe that somehow I’ll come up with whatever money he needs. The nerve of him! Then he asked if I couldn’t just “hold onto his stuff” for the time being, and I laughed at that. I’m going to be downsizing to a rental (first rental in 20 years, thank you very much), and there’s NO way I’m keeping his shit! If he doesn’t take it, it’s garbage.
So, on to the mediator tomorrow. He has acknowledged that he has no clue when he’ll be able to fly back here, so putting together a parenting plan will just have to remain open-ended. We’ll come up with some way to word it tomorrow.
On the financial affidavit, he’s trying to claim all sorts of household expenses on his sheet when it’s my salary that pays for everything! He’s just amazing. I have to get him to give on the division of assets, because the profit from selling the house will be miniscule and I have to use that to pay off debts, so he really doesn’t deserve anything. I have to make him see that we should calculate what he thinks he’s getting, MINUS the debts since he brought them on us, and he should only get the result of that calculation. Yeah, right. I can dream, can’t I?
Wish me luck tomorrow. I have to hammer this out and get him on his way. This is going to be rough handling this house and all the responsibilities alone, but the only thing he did during the course of everyday life is let the dogs out since he was home anyway, and feed them in the late afternoon. I know It won’t be much different, and it will get easier when I sell the house and move to something that’s less maintenance.
He said this morning, “I can’t believe you’re doing this. It NEVER should have come to this.” My response was, “you’ve had 7 out of 9 years of me begging you to be responsible and correct your behavior, to support this family financially and emotionally, and you’ve refused to see how serious your neglect was. And I absolutely refuse to continue living under these bizarre, sick circumstances with you wooing your girlfriend right before my eyes. What did you think would happen?”
Ugh, I dread tomorrow. I warned the mediator that he is delusional and will not listen to reason, so she said she is willing to put us in separate rooms in order to get agreement on things. Wish me luck.
Part 3 Making Plans for the Next Step
I’ve avoided thinking about the bankruptcy option because I’ve always had great credit, but losing the debts he’s caused isn’t looking so bad now, plus I know I can build my credit up again since I pay all my bills on time. My only concern was that I wanted to buy a house as soon as I get relocated (or even downsize here if I had to stay here), and a bankruptcy would obviously affect my ability to get a loan.
I hear you on the “armor” thought. I’ve been trying to NOT react at all to anything, even when he sits on the other side of the slider talking to his girlfriend on the phone while I sit in the kitchen doing homework with my son. Talk about an “in your face” move! Can you believe the gall? I have a friend who’s been through lots of therapy, and he keeps telling me the same thing: Don’t make it “fun” for him. Do NOT react, do NOT engage in battles.
I agree with keeping my moves to myself, but I told him last night that I WOULD be filing and he WOULD be receiving papers soon, and that he may as well move now before a sheriff’s deputy escorts him out of the house and he’s forced to go to his dad’s, which he says he doesn’t want to do. His only comment at that was, “I don’t have any money to move.” I said, “I will come up with the money to ship your stuff and get you a ticket. Start packing and tell her you’re coming.” He didn’t say no, so maybe I can get him to leave now. He’s always said, “I’m not going anywhere,” but maybe I can get him to go if she has agreed to let him come. He must be figuring she’ll take care of him financially
The thought of financial security is probably very appealing to him, especially if he thinks he wouldn’t be expected to get a job. It’s seeming to me that he got himself fired here intentionally after he fulfilled his child support obligations to his ex, but I have continued to demand that he be responsible and make a contribution to this family (financially AND emotionally), and perhaps he thought I was going to let him slide after child support ended.
As to your suggestion to write everything down and keep records, I document everything. I write notes every day on what occurred the previous night at home, and I have notes that go all the way back to my memories of the early days, so I probably have close to 200 pages of notes (and counting).
I went to the Womens Resource Center last spring. They gave me lots of good ideas on courses/seminars aimed at helping women in bad positions like this, but I can’t take the daytime ones because I work, and I am busy with my son when I leave here so I can’t do that either. I need to just get with a lawyer, talk strategy and proceed, and also perhaps look into the bankruptcy option to save myself from drowning in debt. Does that sound good next steps to you? Strategize with lawyer and also talk about bankruptcy? Can a divorce lawyer also help with the bankruptcy or do I need a separate lawyer for that?
In the meantime, let me know if you get any names, and thanks again for the words of encouragement. I can’t tell you how relieved it makes me feel to know that someone with an objective opinion sees this clearly and agrees with my tactics to date. Sometimes it is all so overwhelming I start to second guess my perception and everything I do in response, and it also seems sometimes like I’ll never get out of this mess, but then you make me see that it WILL be okay, eventually, and I am strong and I WILL get out of this.
HER NEXT LETTER WAS THIS:
Oh, BTW, I offered hubby a cash “bribe” a couple months ago in an attempt to get him out, and he said no. Said he’s not doing this for the money. I think he just wants someone to handle all of life’s responsibilities and pay his way, so he can just go along for the ride and have no worries. That’s why I say he’s a 50-year-old adolescent. Expects “mommy” to do everything for him and he has no responsibilities whatsoever, financial, emotional or otherwise.
I had to laugh when I read your comment about telling “her” (the girlfriend) hello, because that’s exactly what I do. Even in the middle of the night, if I walk out there and see him on the phone, I just say, “tell her hi,” or “ask her when you can move out there.” It doesn’t bother me in the least. It just bothers me that he’s doing it on my dime and in my face. I go nuts from morning ‘til night with work, housework, pets, my son and trying to salvage time for my own workouts (which I KNOW I need to stay sane), and he does nothing but sit on the lanai or on the couch talking to his “friend,” or sitting on the computer on Facebook most of the day. What a scum.
Thanks also for the comment on my abilities as a parent. I try so hard to keep things “normal” and fun for my son, and I got him into therapy a few months ago to head off any long-term effects his father may be having on him. He is just starting to open up to his therapist a little, and he tells her he doesn’t like his dad or how emotionally neglectful he is, so hopefully he’ll continue to open up to her as he gets to know her better and gets more comfortable. I wanted to be sure I got him into counseling before it really got to him. I also have him in tae kwon do, which is a great physical and emotional outlet. The staff at his TKD school are very loving and supportive, and I try to surround him with as many positive things as I can to counter the negative effects of his dad. He made gold honor roll at school this quarter and does well in school, so I think I’ve managed to keep him on track so far!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support. You have really brought me a sense of “I’m doing okay,” if you know what I mean. I was starting to wonder. ;)
I hear you on the “armor” thought. I’ve been trying to NOT react at all to anything, even when he sits on the other side of the slider talking to his girlfriend on the phone while I sit in the kitchen doing homework with my son. Talk about an “in your face” move! Can you believe the gall? I have a friend who’s been through lots of therapy, and he keeps telling me the same thing: Don’t make it “fun” for him. Do NOT react, do NOT engage in battles.
I agree with keeping my moves to myself, but I told him last night that I WOULD be filing and he WOULD be receiving papers soon, and that he may as well move now before a sheriff’s deputy escorts him out of the house and he’s forced to go to his dad’s, which he says he doesn’t want to do. His only comment at that was, “I don’t have any money to move.” I said, “I will come up with the money to ship your stuff and get you a ticket. Start packing and tell her you’re coming.” He didn’t say no, so maybe I can get him to leave now. He’s always said, “I’m not going anywhere,” but maybe I can get him to go if she has agreed to let him come. He must be figuring she’ll take care of him financially
The thought of financial security is probably very appealing to him, especially if he thinks he wouldn’t be expected to get a job. It’s seeming to me that he got himself fired here intentionally after he fulfilled his child support obligations to his ex, but I have continued to demand that he be responsible and make a contribution to this family (financially AND emotionally), and perhaps he thought I was going to let him slide after child support ended.
As to your suggestion to write everything down and keep records, I document everything. I write notes every day on what occurred the previous night at home, and I have notes that go all the way back to my memories of the early days, so I probably have close to 200 pages of notes (and counting).
I went to the Womens Resource Center last spring. They gave me lots of good ideas on courses/seminars aimed at helping women in bad positions like this, but I can’t take the daytime ones because I work, and I am busy with my son when I leave here so I can’t do that either. I need to just get with a lawyer, talk strategy and proceed, and also perhaps look into the bankruptcy option to save myself from drowning in debt. Does that sound good next steps to you? Strategize with lawyer and also talk about bankruptcy? Can a divorce lawyer also help with the bankruptcy or do I need a separate lawyer for that?
In the meantime, let me know if you get any names, and thanks again for the words of encouragement. I can’t tell you how relieved it makes me feel to know that someone with an objective opinion sees this clearly and agrees with my tactics to date. Sometimes it is all so overwhelming I start to second guess my perception and everything I do in response, and it also seems sometimes like I’ll never get out of this mess, but then you make me see that it WILL be okay, eventually, and I am strong and I WILL get out of this.
HER NEXT LETTER WAS THIS:
Oh, BTW, I offered hubby a cash “bribe” a couple months ago in an attempt to get him out, and he said no. Said he’s not doing this for the money. I think he just wants someone to handle all of life’s responsibilities and pay his way, so he can just go along for the ride and have no worries. That’s why I say he’s a 50-year-old adolescent. Expects “mommy” to do everything for him and he has no responsibilities whatsoever, financial, emotional or otherwise.
I had to laugh when I read your comment about telling “her” (the girlfriend) hello, because that’s exactly what I do. Even in the middle of the night, if I walk out there and see him on the phone, I just say, “tell her hi,” or “ask her when you can move out there.” It doesn’t bother me in the least. It just bothers me that he’s doing it on my dime and in my face. I go nuts from morning ‘til night with work, housework, pets, my son and trying to salvage time for my own workouts (which I KNOW I need to stay sane), and he does nothing but sit on the lanai or on the couch talking to his “friend,” or sitting on the computer on Facebook most of the day. What a scum.
Thanks also for the comment on my abilities as a parent. I try so hard to keep things “normal” and fun for my son, and I got him into therapy a few months ago to head off any long-term effects his father may be having on him. He is just starting to open up to his therapist a little, and he tells her he doesn’t like his dad or how emotionally neglectful he is, so hopefully he’ll continue to open up to her as he gets to know her better and gets more comfortable. I wanted to be sure I got him into counseling before it really got to him. I also have him in tae kwon do, which is a great physical and emotional outlet. The staff at his TKD school are very loving and supportive, and I try to surround him with as many positive things as I can to counter the negative effects of his dad. He made gold honor roll at school this quarter and does well in school, so I think I’ve managed to keep him on track so far!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support. You have really brought me a sense of “I’m doing okay,” if you know what I mean. I was starting to wonder. ;)
Thursday, November 11, 2010
PART II (from story below)
Thanks for the supportive response. I mean that. As time goes on, this becomes SUCH an emotional drain that it seems I’ll never achieve my dream of a life for me and my son without the psychological games his father plays, so it’s good to hear someone unbiased say that they see hope! Thanks for that. I’m a very strong person, and I AM proactive. You’ll see that I don’t sit back waiting for life to come my way – I believe in making things happen, but this one is taking its toll on me, that’s for sure.
I woke up at 12:30 this morning to find him hunkered down in the family room behind closed doors (again), talking to his girlfriend. I try to ignore him, don’t bite when he tries to bait me into arguments, and basically just go about life as if he doesn’t exist, but when he flaunts this incredibly disrespectful behavior in my face, I can’t help but ask him HOW he possibly can think this is OKAY behavior? I again asked him to PLEASE go live with his dad, stop the emotional torture, and he can call her as often as he likes. He slipped and told me she’s broke, so I guess that’s why he is in no rush to run to her – nothing to gain financially. I reminded him that he has broken me, too, and that there will be nothing left from the house sale after I pay off the debts he’s caused me, so he’s not going to get anything from me either. I know I should ignore him at all costs and not let him engage me in these ridiculous, twisted, delusional conversations, because his goal here is to make ME seem like a shrew to justify his bad behavior, but sometimes he gets me so angry I just have to tell him how insane his comments are! I have to get better at biting my tongue.
Regarding the phone, my concern is that a judge (whenever we get to that point) or a mediator will think it “cruel” of me to remove his phone privileges and access to emergency services. He could claim that, because of his stomach bouts, he needs to be able to call his doctor, and I don’t want to put myself in a bad light for denying him access to medical attention. That’s the same reason I won’t take my SEP (from my boss) and “hide” it where he can’t get his portion, because that will make me look deceptive in the eyes of the court. I don’t need any more points against me if I’m going to salvage anything out of this as far as my assets. I’ve thought about turning off the FiOS TV, internet and everything else, too, but I can’t do that because I need the internet for my banking, my son needs TV and internet, and I can’t make everyone else suffer any more than they already are just to spite my husband. I would love to make his life so uncomfortable he would leave, but that costs everyone else too much, and, again, I don’t know that the judge would look kindly on that.
I have limited his access to financial resources by opening an account that only I can access, and I only leave some of his unemployment compensation in the old account for him to use for his medications, cigarettes, etc. Oh, that’s another sore point: The cigarettes. Here I am, trying to sell the house because I’m going broke, and he spends roughly $250 per month on cigarettes. This could also be one reason the ulcers won’t heal since smoking will prohibit any internal conditions from healing properly. He could probably get his pain doctor to say that he NEEDS the pain meds because of an old injury he suffered back in the '80's. He’s been on oxycontin and other meds ever since, so, again, a judge may see that at cruel punishment if I deny him his pain meds. Don’t you think?
To answer your question as to how he could afford legal counsel, he could take his unemployment income, which amounts to about $700/month after cigarettes, and use that for a lawyer if he were to go live with his father rent-free. While I would still have all the bills to pay, he would be free to use all his money to fight me. I, on the other hand, have nothing to use for a lawyer, and I may have to reimburse him for legal fees if I’m the one to file. Doesn’t the person filing usually have to pay the other person’s legal fees, or at least a portion thereof?
You are right in that I know what I want, and I’ve got SO many things planned for my son in KY (schools, activities, social groups), but I don’t know how to get there now with all the psychological garbage from my husband. He has gotten progressively worse since sitting home like a hermit for over a year (no surprise there), and my original plan was to just bear with it until I can get moved, but now I don’t know if I can last that long. I wish he would get an invitation to move in with his girlfriend and just go for it! My prayers would be answered if he would just let his heart lead him and walk away from me. I’d be in the clear.
Please write me back when you think of the name of that female divorce attorney. I’d appreciate an alternative just to compare, so thanks for trying to think of that for me. I will also contact the FL Bar and see where that gets me.
I woke up at 12:30 this morning to find him hunkered down in the family room behind closed doors (again), talking to his girlfriend. I try to ignore him, don’t bite when he tries to bait me into arguments, and basically just go about life as if he doesn’t exist, but when he flaunts this incredibly disrespectful behavior in my face, I can’t help but ask him HOW he possibly can think this is OKAY behavior? I again asked him to PLEASE go live with his dad, stop the emotional torture, and he can call her as often as he likes. He slipped and told me she’s broke, so I guess that’s why he is in no rush to run to her – nothing to gain financially. I reminded him that he has broken me, too, and that there will be nothing left from the house sale after I pay off the debts he’s caused me, so he’s not going to get anything from me either. I know I should ignore him at all costs and not let him engage me in these ridiculous, twisted, delusional conversations, because his goal here is to make ME seem like a shrew to justify his bad behavior, but sometimes he gets me so angry I just have to tell him how insane his comments are! I have to get better at biting my tongue.
Regarding the phone, my concern is that a judge (whenever we get to that point) or a mediator will think it “cruel” of me to remove his phone privileges and access to emergency services. He could claim that, because of his stomach bouts, he needs to be able to call his doctor, and I don’t want to put myself in a bad light for denying him access to medical attention. That’s the same reason I won’t take my SEP (from my boss) and “hide” it where he can’t get his portion, because that will make me look deceptive in the eyes of the court. I don’t need any more points against me if I’m going to salvage anything out of this as far as my assets. I’ve thought about turning off the FiOS TV, internet and everything else, too, but I can’t do that because I need the internet for my banking, my son needs TV and internet, and I can’t make everyone else suffer any more than they already are just to spite my husband. I would love to make his life so uncomfortable he would leave, but that costs everyone else too much, and, again, I don’t know that the judge would look kindly on that.
I have limited his access to financial resources by opening an account that only I can access, and I only leave some of his unemployment compensation in the old account for him to use for his medications, cigarettes, etc. Oh, that’s another sore point: The cigarettes. Here I am, trying to sell the house because I’m going broke, and he spends roughly $250 per month on cigarettes. This could also be one reason the ulcers won’t heal since smoking will prohibit any internal conditions from healing properly. He could probably get his pain doctor to say that he NEEDS the pain meds because of an old injury he suffered back in the '80's. He’s been on oxycontin and other meds ever since, so, again, a judge may see that at cruel punishment if I deny him his pain meds. Don’t you think?
To answer your question as to how he could afford legal counsel, he could take his unemployment income, which amounts to about $700/month after cigarettes, and use that for a lawyer if he were to go live with his father rent-free. While I would still have all the bills to pay, he would be free to use all his money to fight me. I, on the other hand, have nothing to use for a lawyer, and I may have to reimburse him for legal fees if I’m the one to file. Doesn’t the person filing usually have to pay the other person’s legal fees, or at least a portion thereof?
You are right in that I know what I want, and I’ve got SO many things planned for my son in KY (schools, activities, social groups), but I don’t know how to get there now with all the psychological garbage from my husband. He has gotten progressively worse since sitting home like a hermit for over a year (no surprise there), and my original plan was to just bear with it until I can get moved, but now I don’t know if I can last that long. I wish he would get an invitation to move in with his girlfriend and just go for it! My prayers would be answered if he would just let his heart lead him and walk away from me. I’d be in the clear.
Please write me back when you think of the name of that female divorce attorney. I’d appreciate an alternative just to compare, so thanks for trying to think of that for me. I will also contact the FL Bar and see where that gets me.
He's a Psychotic Bastard
Dear Bubbie - I haven’t checked out the site for a while (DearBubbie on Facebook) -- Hope you are well.
This will be a LONG one. You can read and respond once you’ve digested all I’ve written here, and perhaps consult with your other Bubbies if you feel so inclined. It’s regarding my husband, and he lives on Facebook, so best to keep my name out of it.
I am living in a NIGHTMARE and I need advice on what to do. I’ll try to keep this as brief as I can, but it’s a story 9 years in the making, so there’s a lot to tell. I tell people it feels like I’m living in one of those Lifetime made-for TV movies where everyone in town thinks the husband is WONDERFUL and perfect, and only the wife knows that he’s actually a psychotic bastard. Basically I need to know what you all think I should do about filing for divorce vs. separation vs. getting a restraining order for reasons of mental / emotional abuse (if possible). The options are important for a number of reasons:
1. Divorce means near-immediate division of assets (which are all MINE, not his, but the law is the law and he’ll get far more than he deserves).
2. He’s threatening a nasty custody battle over our 8-year-old son, which he would never win because he’s been emotionally negligent for all 8 years and my son will says so, and because he’s an unemployed prescription drug addict who does nothing to help support the family, and because I am THE caregiver for my son and he and I are very close.
3. I’ve wanted to relocate for years to Kentucky, and, if I file for divorce now, he can and WILL stop me from taking our son to Kentucky and getting our life going up there. My son wants to move, too, but he won’t want to the longer we stay here (more roots are growing all the time).
My husband has contributed very little since day 1 financially because he had child support to pay to his ex-wife. He brought home roughly $200 per week for 7 years. Within about 8 months of finally finishing his child support obligations, he managed to get himself fired and has now been unemployed since September 2009. He also made “mistakes” on his tax returns his first two years here which he claims were totally innocent (yeah, right), and I had to pay the IRS $7,000 on a credit card. With some medical expenses and other things going on credit because of his lack of an income, he has put me $20,000 in debt.
He is currently not looking for work, and he claims he wouldn’t be able to hold down a job due to some physical ailments, namely multiple ulcers that flare up every few weeks or so. You can’t tell him that people with ulcers work all the time, as do people with conditions far more serious than ulcers, because he will deny that and tell you that you have no idea what he goes through during an ulcer flare. On the other hand, when asked why he doesn’t get on disability and move to Plan B if he has no intention of seeking employment and helping his family, he’ll say that he doesn’t know if his illness qualifies him for disability and that getting on disability is very difficult and a pain in the ass. So, he’d rather do nothing, wait for unemployment to run out, and let me deal with the fallout.
When I tell people he’s been unemployed for over a year, their reaction is, “well, at least you have someone at home doing all the housework and cooking the meals, right?” Um, no. He does NOT do housework, he does NOT cook, he does NOT do repairs. Once or twice a month he’ll do something if I leave the “to-do” list out for long enough, or if I get angry enough and demand that he do something.
He lives on Facebook, and he has amassed a collection of over 800 “friends,” many of whom he doesn’t know, but he friends the friends of everyone he knows, and people accept out of name recognition, so his collection grows. People have written me after accepting his invitation and asked WHY he friended them, and I just say “I don’t know.” He tells people a slew of lies about me, such as that I belittle him and yell at him all the time (funny, but he used to say the same things to me about his ex-wife), and that I’ve had multiple extra-marital affairs, which is laughable because I do nothing but work all day and tend to my son when I’m not at work. My son and I are inseparable when we’re not at work / school, so I couldn’t possibly have an affair even if I wanted to!
I’ve tried to enlist the help of his family (sister in CA), but he is very convincing and she believes that he must be telling at least partial truths (which he is NOT), so she won’t help. I’ve asked her to think about how I could possibly have had affairs, and she said the HE told her that people have flown into Sarasota to see me. And what, had a passionate rendezvous at my office, with my boss and co-worker present? She had no response to that, just that she must side with her brother because that’s the right thing for her to do.
A few months ago, I found out he’s been having a long distance phone relationship with a woman who lives in Boston. He knew her growing up and reconnected with her on Facebook. They talk in the overnight hours, while I’m sleeping, and also sometimes during the day when I’m at work. I’ve caught him hiding in the back yard in the middle of the night, by the pool pump, talking to her on the phone. I’m always calm when I find him hiding out there with the phone, because I don’t care if he goes to her. I wish he would. What is really a slap in the face is the fact that I am supporting this bastard and he’s calling this woman on my dime, while I’m either sleeping or working. Every once in a while they get disconnected in the middle of the night and she calls back, and he picks up on ½ a ring, but I’ve actually called her back and asked her to please just not call in the middle of the night because I have to get up for work in the morning. I’ve also asked her to PLEASE ask him to move to California, but so far no luck. I’ve been asking him to leave for a year because it’s obvious he won’t seek the counseling he needs (he refuses) and he won’t seek employment (he just keeps saying either he doesn’t feel well enough or that there aren’t any jobs out there, when, in fact, he’s not looking, or that he plans on finding a job… someday). When I tell him he has to leave for our son’s sake, and tell him that he’s doing nothing but emotionally traumatizing me and our son, he laughs, looks me in the eye and says, “I’m not going anywhere.”
We sane people know that the right thing for him to do here is to pack up and leave, despite not wanting to acknowledge the end of the marriage, but that doing that is the right thing to do. He could go live with his father, rent-free, in the Tampa area, or he could go live with his sister, but he flat-out refuses to go. So, here I am, stuck with this truly psychotic, delusional person who refuses to leave, and who promises to lie and start a MAJOR custody battle if I make him leave. If I file for divorce, he will cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees that I don’t have, and he will prevent me from relocating with our son. In addition, he will drain me financially by taking his share of everything we have, even though he hasn’t contributed hardly anything in the way of income and has caused us to incur the above-mentioned debts.
I can try to tolerate this until the house sells, relocate, and then file in six months. However, the thought of getting up in the middle of the night, night after night, and finding your spouse lounging around talking to his girlfriend on the phone while YOU pay all the bills and take care of all the other responsibilities (house, child, pets, etc.) is not exactly bearable. Nor is it a healthy environment for my son. And that’s my priority – maintaining a good, healthy life for my son, and so far I’ve managed to do that despite his father’s lunacy.
I could try and file for a restraining order for reasons of mental/emotional abuse and have him removed, but I don’t know if I can get it, and he is also going to lie and make it look like he’s the injured party in some way and detract from my credibility. In addition, if I CAN get him removed and I can sell the house and relocate, the divorce then becomes two-state battle between FL and KY, and I don’t know what that would do to me.
I could maybe file for a legal separation and deal with it later, but that, too, becomes a two-state issue if I sell the house and relocate.
So, my options, as far as I see it, are:
1. File for divorce now and lose a lot financially, lose the right to relocate (probably), but gain my freedom from this nightmare.
2. File for legal separation, and I’m not sure what that would gain me.
3. File for a restraining order and have him removed, and I could (hopefully) relocate, but I would have a two-state battle on my hands and possibly travel expenses involved if he is allowed to have our son come visit him.
4. Stay the course and wait for the house to sell, relocate with him in tow and file after six months in KY. And put up with his bullshit in the meantime, no matter how ethically WRONG his actions are and how nuts I may go in the process. (By the way, renting out the house here is NOT an option because I can’t afford any major repairs should something go wrong, and it WILL because it’s a 197o house and it has a pool, and because I can’t be a long-distance landlord, and because I’d have to get a pretty hefty rent to pay the mortgage on it.
I have spoken with one lawyer here in town who warned me that I could end up having to pay HIM alimony if he convinces a judge he that he can’t hold down a job, for mental or physical reasons. He’s such a good liar he might just be able to pull that off. I have consulted with another lawyer online who echoed the same warning.
I wouldn’t mind consulting with another female pitbull of a lawyer here in Sarasota if you know of a good one. This woman I met with was quite nasty, but I’m not sure she’ll fight for ME rather than just doing what the law allows/requires. I want someone who will at least make an attempt to keep some of my assets from getting into his undeserving hands, and to keep me from having to pay alimony!
So, Dear Bubbie, what would you advise me to do, and do you know of a good female divorce lawyer in Sarasota?
This will be a LONG one. You can read and respond once you’ve digested all I’ve written here, and perhaps consult with your other Bubbies if you feel so inclined. It’s regarding my husband, and he lives on Facebook, so best to keep my name out of it.
I am living in a NIGHTMARE and I need advice on what to do. I’ll try to keep this as brief as I can, but it’s a story 9 years in the making, so there’s a lot to tell. I tell people it feels like I’m living in one of those Lifetime made-for TV movies where everyone in town thinks the husband is WONDERFUL and perfect, and only the wife knows that he’s actually a psychotic bastard. Basically I need to know what you all think I should do about filing for divorce vs. separation vs. getting a restraining order for reasons of mental / emotional abuse (if possible). The options are important for a number of reasons:
1. Divorce means near-immediate division of assets (which are all MINE, not his, but the law is the law and he’ll get far more than he deserves).
2. He’s threatening a nasty custody battle over our 8-year-old son, which he would never win because he’s been emotionally negligent for all 8 years and my son will says so, and because he’s an unemployed prescription drug addict who does nothing to help support the family, and because I am THE caregiver for my son and he and I are very close.
3. I’ve wanted to relocate for years to Kentucky, and, if I file for divorce now, he can and WILL stop me from taking our son to Kentucky and getting our life going up there. My son wants to move, too, but he won’t want to the longer we stay here (more roots are growing all the time).
My husband has contributed very little since day 1 financially because he had child support to pay to his ex-wife. He brought home roughly $200 per week for 7 years. Within about 8 months of finally finishing his child support obligations, he managed to get himself fired and has now been unemployed since September 2009. He also made “mistakes” on his tax returns his first two years here which he claims were totally innocent (yeah, right), and I had to pay the IRS $7,000 on a credit card. With some medical expenses and other things going on credit because of his lack of an income, he has put me $20,000 in debt.
He is currently not looking for work, and he claims he wouldn’t be able to hold down a job due to some physical ailments, namely multiple ulcers that flare up every few weeks or so. You can’t tell him that people with ulcers work all the time, as do people with conditions far more serious than ulcers, because he will deny that and tell you that you have no idea what he goes through during an ulcer flare. On the other hand, when asked why he doesn’t get on disability and move to Plan B if he has no intention of seeking employment and helping his family, he’ll say that he doesn’t know if his illness qualifies him for disability and that getting on disability is very difficult and a pain in the ass. So, he’d rather do nothing, wait for unemployment to run out, and let me deal with the fallout.
When I tell people he’s been unemployed for over a year, their reaction is, “well, at least you have someone at home doing all the housework and cooking the meals, right?” Um, no. He does NOT do housework, he does NOT cook, he does NOT do repairs. Once or twice a month he’ll do something if I leave the “to-do” list out for long enough, or if I get angry enough and demand that he do something.
He lives on Facebook, and he has amassed a collection of over 800 “friends,” many of whom he doesn’t know, but he friends the friends of everyone he knows, and people accept out of name recognition, so his collection grows. People have written me after accepting his invitation and asked WHY he friended them, and I just say “I don’t know.” He tells people a slew of lies about me, such as that I belittle him and yell at him all the time (funny, but he used to say the same things to me about his ex-wife), and that I’ve had multiple extra-marital affairs, which is laughable because I do nothing but work all day and tend to my son when I’m not at work. My son and I are inseparable when we’re not at work / school, so I couldn’t possibly have an affair even if I wanted to!
I’ve tried to enlist the help of his family (sister in CA), but he is very convincing and she believes that he must be telling at least partial truths (which he is NOT), so she won’t help. I’ve asked her to think about how I could possibly have had affairs, and she said the HE told her that people have flown into Sarasota to see me. And what, had a passionate rendezvous at my office, with my boss and co-worker present? She had no response to that, just that she must side with her brother because that’s the right thing for her to do.
A few months ago, I found out he’s been having a long distance phone relationship with a woman who lives in Boston. He knew her growing up and reconnected with her on Facebook. They talk in the overnight hours, while I’m sleeping, and also sometimes during the day when I’m at work. I’ve caught him hiding in the back yard in the middle of the night, by the pool pump, talking to her on the phone. I’m always calm when I find him hiding out there with the phone, because I don’t care if he goes to her. I wish he would. What is really a slap in the face is the fact that I am supporting this bastard and he’s calling this woman on my dime, while I’m either sleeping or working. Every once in a while they get disconnected in the middle of the night and she calls back, and he picks up on ½ a ring, but I’ve actually called her back and asked her to please just not call in the middle of the night because I have to get up for work in the morning. I’ve also asked her to PLEASE ask him to move to California, but so far no luck. I’ve been asking him to leave for a year because it’s obvious he won’t seek the counseling he needs (he refuses) and he won’t seek employment (he just keeps saying either he doesn’t feel well enough or that there aren’t any jobs out there, when, in fact, he’s not looking, or that he plans on finding a job… someday). When I tell him he has to leave for our son’s sake, and tell him that he’s doing nothing but emotionally traumatizing me and our son, he laughs, looks me in the eye and says, “I’m not going anywhere.”
We sane people know that the right thing for him to do here is to pack up and leave, despite not wanting to acknowledge the end of the marriage, but that doing that is the right thing to do. He could go live with his father, rent-free, in the Tampa area, or he could go live with his sister, but he flat-out refuses to go. So, here I am, stuck with this truly psychotic, delusional person who refuses to leave, and who promises to lie and start a MAJOR custody battle if I make him leave. If I file for divorce, he will cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees that I don’t have, and he will prevent me from relocating with our son. In addition, he will drain me financially by taking his share of everything we have, even though he hasn’t contributed hardly anything in the way of income and has caused us to incur the above-mentioned debts.
I can try to tolerate this until the house sells, relocate, and then file in six months. However, the thought of getting up in the middle of the night, night after night, and finding your spouse lounging around talking to his girlfriend on the phone while YOU pay all the bills and take care of all the other responsibilities (house, child, pets, etc.) is not exactly bearable. Nor is it a healthy environment for my son. And that’s my priority – maintaining a good, healthy life for my son, and so far I’ve managed to do that despite his father’s lunacy.
I could try and file for a restraining order for reasons of mental/emotional abuse and have him removed, but I don’t know if I can get it, and he is also going to lie and make it look like he’s the injured party in some way and detract from my credibility. In addition, if I CAN get him removed and I can sell the house and relocate, the divorce then becomes two-state battle between FL and KY, and I don’t know what that would do to me.
I could maybe file for a legal separation and deal with it later, but that, too, becomes a two-state issue if I sell the house and relocate.
So, my options, as far as I see it, are:
1. File for divorce now and lose a lot financially, lose the right to relocate (probably), but gain my freedom from this nightmare.
2. File for legal separation, and I’m not sure what that would gain me.
3. File for a restraining order and have him removed, and I could (hopefully) relocate, but I would have a two-state battle on my hands and possibly travel expenses involved if he is allowed to have our son come visit him.
4. Stay the course and wait for the house to sell, relocate with him in tow and file after six months in KY. And put up with his bullshit in the meantime, no matter how ethically WRONG his actions are and how nuts I may go in the process. (By the way, renting out the house here is NOT an option because I can’t afford any major repairs should something go wrong, and it WILL because it’s a 197o house and it has a pool, and because I can’t be a long-distance landlord, and because I’d have to get a pretty hefty rent to pay the mortgage on it.
I have spoken with one lawyer here in town who warned me that I could end up having to pay HIM alimony if he convinces a judge he that he can’t hold down a job, for mental or physical reasons. He’s such a good liar he might just be able to pull that off. I have consulted with another lawyer online who echoed the same warning.
I wouldn’t mind consulting with another female pitbull of a lawyer here in Sarasota if you know of a good one. This woman I met with was quite nasty, but I’m not sure she’ll fight for ME rather than just doing what the law allows/requires. I want someone who will at least make an attempt to keep some of my assets from getting into his undeserving hands, and to keep me from having to pay alimony!
So, Dear Bubbie, what would you advise me to do, and do you know of a good female divorce lawyer in Sarasota?
Saturday, October 30, 2010
He's a Terrible Driver!
You can find DearBubbie (one word) on Facebook.
DearBubbie "My husband is the most gawd-awful driver and somehow he avoids getting tickets. He not only will tailgate, but his road rage (even towards elderly drivers) makes me feel like I don't know him. He says he'll try to do better, but I practically see his blood pressure go up even when he's quiet. Of course, HE wants to ...drive. What do you suggest?"
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Mary:
Stop riding with him. Tell him that you don't like the way he drives or behaves,that its dangerous to you and him AND everyone else on the road and you refuse to ride with him anymore. When you go somewhere, you drive. Then ease up a bit slowly by "allowing" him to drive when you really don't feel like driving.
Lynda:
I am not sure which is worse, your husband who has very bad driving etiquette or mine who wants to drive from the passenger seat. I would insist on driving when we were together. Explain to him that his attitude makes you very nervous and you would just as soon let him sit in the passenger side and enjoy the ride. I have seen so much road rage turn into violence. What is done is done. I am not even a horn honker because by the time I honk they have already committed that infraction..
DearBubbie I wonder if the 'reward' system would work here. Reward good driving habits with his favorite meal....or something else. .. . If he doesn't drive well, penalize him yourself with your own 'ticket' of sorts. I wonder if WHILE the infraction is happening, if there's anything you can do as the passenger to allieviate his stress. Maybe you can google "funny insults' and while the other driver is not moving on a green light, you can start your comedy routine.
DearBubbie
Lynda - you're funny! But be careful. In my smaller car, whenever I pass a large SUV or truck, I have my hand resting on the horn. I also do the 'polite' horn toot vs. the "you idiot" toot. Texters and cellphone users WHILE driving can be irritating, but somehow the husband has to not make it HIS problem and thus YOUR problem. It's about controlling his temper. How in the world does one accomplish that?
Janet:
I have a problem with punishing him for bad behavior, and throwing him treats for good behavior. He's not a child. Neither is he a pet that has to be trained. He says he'll try. I think all you can do is keep reminding him of your discomfort, and don't ride with him if it scares the hell out of you. He is the only one who can change his behavior, and I believe he will once he fully understands - through your words and actions - how uncomfortable you are with his driving habits.
Gordon:
Pray for a close call that almost became a serious accident, yet many men continue that pattern even after a REAL accident. Judging from the job i just retired from , this could be job stress on his part that in certain fields carries into off time. My ex wife drove most of the time we drove anywhere together and I was fine with it(I drove all day for a living), a "Type A' male will have none of that...
Michael A.:
It's all about education. Not your husband's. Other driver's education. If all drivers realized that the left lane is for passing only, not doing the speed limit and clogging up traffic, I promise 90% of your husbands issues will be resolve...d. Until then, buy him a super fast accelerating car equipped with super big brakes and hold on for the ride of your life. I personally recommend you buy him a BMW M6, probably a drop top if you are in FL. It worked for me. PS. I haven't been issued any citations in the last decade either. Just saying....
Sally:
oh god here we go again . "blame the victim' for road rage and the 'I have the right to go any speed I want to in the left lane' syndrome. No, you DON'T.. not in any state.. Those 'traffic cloggers' in the left lane that keep you from going... any speed you want are mostly there because 1)they are going to make a left turn soon and in most metro areas you HAVE to get in the left turn lane well ahead of time or you won't be able to or 2) they would really like to move over to the right but all the reckless, rude speeders in the right lane, all following too closely, won't let them. Will you overly-testosteroneized folks ever realize that the left lane does NOT belong to you to go any speed you want? probably not, you all want to be Mario Andretti or Jimmy Johnson or somebody like that.
Rose:
My ex-husband used to go absolutely crazy driving down here. He would get right on someone's tail and just lay on the horn - it was embarrassing. I was always afraid he was going to give some elderly driver a heart attack or a stroke - so I know how you feel.
Ashley:
Just let him take the wheel~ him probably likes the rush hehe~
DearBubbie
I think I'd just try to beat my husband to the punch and say IMMEDIATELY: "Oh honey, I'm so proud of you for not saying what an idiot that person is! You're aweseome!" I mean, you'd have to say it IMMEDIATELY before he has a chance to pound... the steering wheel. To be honest. . during my single days. . .if I had a date with someone who drove badly, I never dated them again. People said I was "too picky", but I love going for rides so much, I had to love the way the person drove. The worst thing HubbaBubbaBubbieHubbie says is: "Get out of my way, Grandma" which he stole from the movie "Cool Runnings". I don't know if you can tell your hubby (when he's acting up): "Turn it around. This ride is over."
Sally:
I agree, if a man is really a terrible driver I'd have to think whether the relationship is worth it.. furthermore I would bet that most of the bad 'road rage' men have serious anger management issues in other areas of life as well..
Charles:
I have a wife thatr is the same waqy and takes her eyes off the road and away from her driving to make phone calls on her cell phone, and i pray everyday that noone gets hurt or killed including her. Yes, she has an uncontrolable temperthat scares a lot of people, and that temper is what caused our seperation along with her being physically and verbally abusive to several people, and that is something I hope and pray she gets professional help for.
DearBubbie BubbaBub Charles, thanks for weighing in. I see you do a lot of 'likes' on our page. We're happy to have you with us. I hope you meet a kinder, gentler kindred spirit.
Sally:
I hope that every man who's in a marriage that is hopeless or not salvageable will take steps to end it.. there are lots of kind, loving, loyal, non-abusive women who would just love to have a partner.
DearBubbie "My husband is the most gawd-awful driver and somehow he avoids getting tickets. He not only will tailgate, but his road rage (even towards elderly drivers) makes me feel like I don't know him. He says he'll try to do better, but I practically see his blood pressure go up even when he's quiet. Of course, HE wants to ...drive. What do you suggest?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary:
Stop riding with him. Tell him that you don't like the way he drives or behaves,that its dangerous to you and him AND everyone else on the road and you refuse to ride with him anymore. When you go somewhere, you drive. Then ease up a bit slowly by "allowing" him to drive when you really don't feel like driving.
Lynda:
I am not sure which is worse, your husband who has very bad driving etiquette or mine who wants to drive from the passenger seat. I would insist on driving when we were together. Explain to him that his attitude makes you very nervous and you would just as soon let him sit in the passenger side and enjoy the ride. I have seen so much road rage turn into violence. What is done is done. I am not even a horn honker because by the time I honk they have already committed that infraction..
DearBubbie I wonder if the 'reward' system would work here. Reward good driving habits with his favorite meal....or something else. .. . If he doesn't drive well, penalize him yourself with your own 'ticket' of sorts. I wonder if WHILE the infraction is happening, if there's anything you can do as the passenger to allieviate his stress. Maybe you can google "funny insults' and while the other driver is not moving on a green light, you can start your comedy routine.
DearBubbie
Lynda - you're funny! But be careful. In my smaller car, whenever I pass a large SUV or truck, I have my hand resting on the horn. I also do the 'polite' horn toot vs. the "you idiot" toot. Texters and cellphone users WHILE driving can be irritating, but somehow the husband has to not make it HIS problem and thus YOUR problem. It's about controlling his temper. How in the world does one accomplish that?
Janet:
I have a problem with punishing him for bad behavior, and throwing him treats for good behavior. He's not a child. Neither is he a pet that has to be trained. He says he'll try. I think all you can do is keep reminding him of your discomfort, and don't ride with him if it scares the hell out of you. He is the only one who can change his behavior, and I believe he will once he fully understands - through your words and actions - how uncomfortable you are with his driving habits.
Gordon:
Pray for a close call that almost became a serious accident, yet many men continue that pattern even after a REAL accident. Judging from the job i just retired from , this could be job stress on his part that in certain fields carries into off time. My ex wife drove most of the time we drove anywhere together and I was fine with it(I drove all day for a living), a "Type A' male will have none of that...
Michael A.:
It's all about education. Not your husband's. Other driver's education. If all drivers realized that the left lane is for passing only, not doing the speed limit and clogging up traffic, I promise 90% of your husbands issues will be resolve...d. Until then, buy him a super fast accelerating car equipped with super big brakes and hold on for the ride of your life. I personally recommend you buy him a BMW M6, probably a drop top if you are in FL. It worked for me. PS. I haven't been issued any citations in the last decade either. Just saying....
Sally:
oh god here we go again . "blame the victim' for road rage and the 'I have the right to go any speed I want to in the left lane' syndrome. No, you DON'T.. not in any state.. Those 'traffic cloggers' in the left lane that keep you from going... any speed you want are mostly there because 1)they are going to make a left turn soon and in most metro areas you HAVE to get in the left turn lane well ahead of time or you won't be able to or 2) they would really like to move over to the right but all the reckless, rude speeders in the right lane, all following too closely, won't let them. Will you overly-testosteroneized folks ever realize that the left lane does NOT belong to you to go any speed you want? probably not, you all want to be Mario Andretti or Jimmy Johnson or somebody like that.
Rose:
My ex-husband used to go absolutely crazy driving down here. He would get right on someone's tail and just lay on the horn - it was embarrassing. I was always afraid he was going to give some elderly driver a heart attack or a stroke - so I know how you feel.
Ashley:
Just let him take the wheel~ him probably likes the rush hehe~
DearBubbie
I think I'd just try to beat my husband to the punch and say IMMEDIATELY: "Oh honey, I'm so proud of you for not saying what an idiot that person is! You're aweseome!" I mean, you'd have to say it IMMEDIATELY before he has a chance to pound... the steering wheel. To be honest. . during my single days. . .if I had a date with someone who drove badly, I never dated them again. People said I was "too picky", but I love going for rides so much, I had to love the way the person drove. The worst thing HubbaBubbaBubbieHubbie says is: "Get out of my way, Grandma" which he stole from the movie "Cool Runnings". I don't know if you can tell your hubby (when he's acting up): "Turn it around. This ride is over."
Sally:
I agree, if a man is really a terrible driver I'd have to think whether the relationship is worth it.. furthermore I would bet that most of the bad 'road rage' men have serious anger management issues in other areas of life as well..
Charles:
I have a wife thatr is the same waqy and takes her eyes off the road and away from her driving to make phone calls on her cell phone, and i pray everyday that noone gets hurt or killed including her. Yes, she has an uncontrolable temperthat scares a lot of people, and that temper is what caused our seperation along with her being physically and verbally abusive to several people, and that is something I hope and pray she gets professional help for.
DearBubbie BubbaBub Charles, thanks for weighing in. I see you do a lot of 'likes' on our page. We're happy to have you with us. I hope you meet a kinder, gentler kindred spirit.
Sally:
I hope that every man who's in a marriage that is hopeless or not salvageable will take steps to end it.. there are lots of kind, loving, loyal, non-abusive women who would just love to have a partner.
She Talks and Talks and Talks and. . .
DearBubbie "I've been married for seven years and lately, I am bored out of my mind by my wife. She talks incessantly about people I don't know (and could care less about). She talks about her appearance a lot - too much. I can't even enjoy dinner with her endless drivel. I want to say: "SHUT UP! Can you just SHUT UP for one minute"? Can you help us get back to finding each other interesting?"
Paul:
wait a second*.....
Susanne:
Have you tried steering the conversation to something that interests you both...or finding something that interests the two of you. If there's something that bothers you, it's up to you to make an effort to make things better. Is your wife aware of the way you feel? If she doesn't know how you feel, she can't make any changes. Good luck
Janet:
Incessant, mindless chatter gets on my nerves, too...But, didn't she do this when you found her 'interesting'?
Paul:
Okay, I had to stop laughing.... You've been married 7 years? When was the last time you took the time to have a conversation with your wife? You say she talks too much about her appearance, have you noticed her lately? Complimented her on ...her looks/dress? And maybe she talks about her friends because she wants to involve you in her life.Get to know her again, look back 7 years to find what was interesting with you two to begin with! The worst thing you could do is tell your wife (or anyone just wanting to talk) to "shut up"! It sounds like she just wants you to have some interest in her life again! So, here's a KleenaxSee More
Paul:
...sorry, I had to stop laughing again, Kleenex tissue, wipe your tears, blow your nose, AND TAKE SOME TIME TO TALK/INVOLVE IN YOUR WIFE'S LAUGH! ps- And eat dinner alittle faster if you want a hot meal!
Ruben:
Buy her some ear rings, take her to dinner and then eat her potato salad. That'll do it.
Jan:
Good comment Janet. A lot of men love to talk on and on about their jobs, past and present and I know a lot of women listen and retain a lot of what is said...even if it is boring to them. I know personally that some of these same men wil...l then say of their partner's conversation exactly what this man said- "I don't know these people....I don't care about them"A successful relationship means that BOTH of you listen to the other.Maybe she won't talk so much if you actually show interest in what she is saying.
Deb:
two people have said it.....she was probably like this when you met and you found it.......charming?, helpful that she carried the conversation?..........figure out your shift first. Seems you two would have found that place of "easy silenc...e" by now. And she sounds nervous and insecure. So the comments about complimenting her are right on. Maybe it's time for a new hobby together. I was married for 15 years and I couldn't listen to my husband's drivel either after awhile....but had I known then what I know now, I would have done some couples workshops and gotten into who we both are so we could have some respect for our differences. I love the Enneagram for this.....we have a local group and it's not therapy, but rather self exploration.
Lisa:
You know the saying when you point your finger at someone there are three more pointing right back at you. Its not all her. She is desparate for you to engage in conversation and is just fishing around for a topic that you might want to t...alk about. Engage in active conversation with her. Ask questions, dig deeper, you might find that the conversations will become less about things that bore you and more about who she is as a person and what her views are on things and there will be different levels of conversation starting. I have been married 21 years- I have a vastly different hobby from my husband and frankly neither of us really care about the others hoby except that it makes us happy. We still listen to the other when we talk about what makes us happy even if it is boring and we have no freaking clue about what the other is talking about. And ya know what- eventually we learn quite a bit about the other's hobby, enough to hold a conversation and we each are very happy. Active conversation.
DearBubbie
If she's a talker where you can't even get a word in EDGEWISE - you need to tell her to stop a minute to breathe and also let you 'engage' in the conversation. I'm looking at the extreme, just in case that's the case. She would have to be ...told - NICELY. Otherwise, you need to step up to the plate and do some work. (That's why they say - marriage takes work; things don't always fall into place naturally.) You have to come up with topics - as has been advised. From talking about something in the newspaper, to an upcoming vacation to a tv show or movie or food! I let my husband talk about his Willy's Jeep and I've learned a LOT; but when it starts getting too technical, I make a joke and he 'gets it'. It does make me happy when he yammers on about it, though - because I know how happy it makes him. I'm sure he feels the same way about my tennis. But along with the 'boring' talk - there still needs to be a common ground that both can happily yammer on about together! ♥
Chris:
I am smiling and laughing too Paul, but for some different reasons. I care for my 92/93 year old Grandparents and they have been married 70 years. I know my Grandma listened intently to my Pop's interests and hobbies for most of those 70 ...years. Now she has mild dementia and has short term memory loss and Pop now has to listen to the same conversations over and over and over and over again on a daily basis. Karma works that way. Whenever I tell my Dad I feel bad for Pop he just smiles and says Pop is getting a bit of a payback.I agree with Deb too. Your wife was probably the same "conversationalist" when you met her, but the things that attracted you far outweighed that and you didn't notice. Time to take notice again of what attracted you in the first place. Marriages these days have "short term memory problems" when it comes to why we married our spouse to begin with.Good luck. Really, the laughter is not at you in my case, but smiling and laughing is how I deal with many of my stressors and I think you need to find some humor along with love in your situation. My husband comes home everyday from work and tells me stories about 4 or 5 coworkers. If I told him to Shut Up and that I didn't care, I don't think he would be very happy with me. Ya think??
Sara:
Sounds like you BOTH need to have a good long honest talk...and go back to the start....what got you together in the first place...turn off the phone, radio tv and go for a bike ride....a walk....listen to each other...find yourselfs again...get away from the everyday stress of life and reconnect
Michael A.
I hate to say it, but there are always three sides to a relationship story….his, hers and the real truth.Try looking hard in the mirror at yourself. Oftentimes you have more impact on a relationship by changing your methods/ways rather tha...n insisting on your partner being the one to change.Here are 23 Ways to Be the Man She Wants1. You can put down the weights and the protein shakes. You might want us to be perfect looking; we simply want you not to be fat. 2. Replace all of those hideous size-extra-large T-shirts with something that actually sort of fits. We think you might be a medium.3. Never allow anyone who listens to baseball on the radio to cut your hair.4. Purchase sheets that don't contain polyester and that are white.5. Blue Book value isn't everything. Take the money you were going to spend putting the backseat DVD theater in your Honda and buy a nice pair of shoes.6. We don't care what the plan is. Just have one.7. Candles. They are so cheap and they are so effective.8. When you give her a gift, include a card. You can spend less on the gift if you write something nice. Don't buy a card with a message in it, unless you're dating Danielle Steele.9. She arrives home from work eager for attention. You arrive home from work eager for several beers and the Simpsons-King of the Hill hour. The moment you come home, hug her, look into her eyes, and say that you're happy to see her. This simple gesture, done with sincerity, will earn you lots of time on the couch.10. Buy covered garbage cans for your kitchen and bathroom. They hide stuff we don't want to know about anyway.11. Make a list entitled "Intolerable Behavior from Women," and when you see it happening, speak up. Let us know you won't be around no matter what, and we'll want to keep you. 12. Drive a stick shift. Men look ineffectual driving automatics.13. Never utter the phrase, "I know I'm no Brad Pitt/Denzel Washington." You're a guy. Merely acting like you think you're hot makes you hot. Be grateful, because women actually have to be hot to be hot.14. Short sleeves are for golf only; sandals are for Jesus only.15. When a woman asks you to accompany her to a wedding or a family event, R.S.V.P. within 24 hours. If you find that you can't commit, do everyone a favor and break it off.16. Stop operating on the in-trouble/not-in-trouble paradigm. Just because we're not yelling at you doesn't mean everything is okay.17. If you're late, call.18. Brush your teeth a lot.19. Realize that if you "keep forgetting" to trim your nose hairs, we will "keep forgetting" to initiate sex.20. If your television is of a size such that it is regularly commented on, hide it in a cabinet. You might have a penchant for a) sloth, b) passivity, or c) tuning out the world, but she need not be reminded of this every time she walks into your living room.21. You might not know what she wants you to get her for her birthday, but her friends do. Ask them. 22. When we are together, sometimes we are occupied with tasks—closing a window, putting on a new CD, petting the cat—that cause us to focus our gaze elsewhere. May we suggest these windows of time as the most favorable for scratching your balls.23. Buy a Swiffer and use it. They come in dry (living room) and wet (kitchen and bathroom). Wash your dishes. Pick up your clothes. Swiff. She'll think you're a responsible adult.And, there are some other good reads at www.menshealth.com .
Mary:
You know I have come to this page today about 4 times, and left again because I really couldnt find the words to respond to this. Having counted to about 1000 I am ready to give this person some feed back.Maybe you just need to grow up and ...get to know the "friends you dont know and dont care about" Obviously they are important to her. You said I do... but dont care enough to know her friends? I have huge issues with that. Maybe she is talking because you are not talking to her and she wants conversation? I can almost guarantee your marriage is not going to last if you are tired and bored of your wife and want her to "shut up" all the timeSounds to me like you need to do your wife a favor and get some counseling. Not trying to be harsh,just honestHaving said that, I am sorry, but you obviously have a problem. Maybe its a medical problem like depression? You should consult with your doctor. I dont know how old you are, but maybe you are suffering from a midlife crisis? Seriously, go see your doc, make a date with the one you married, and take the time to care... it would probably work miraclesGoing back to my own page, apologizing ahead of time if my post is rude.. just giving honest feedback... what I love about this page...·
DearBubbie
I just remember one couple that my husband and I ate with at lunch. The woman talked NON-STOP and it was all 'nonsense'. Like she loved hearing the sound of her own voice. She was chewing and talking at the same time. We were ALL quiet -... because there was NO way we would be able to get a sentence in. She was very happy, her husband looked miserable, my husband was amused and I was frazzled. So - that scenario could be what's causing his 'reaction'. And the solution in that case - would be to let her know.
DearBubbie Another quick story. . .an older woman came in who was widowed. She said her husband told the same cow story to every acquaintance he would meet. She wanted to kill him if she heard the cow story one more time. When he passed, she said she'd give everything to hear the cow story again.
Mary:
But Bubbie... this guy said "Lately..." different?
Martha:
your wife knows how you feel thats why she keeps rambling. One day she will shut up and you will not hear her voice again, this is how my x husband was with me I was a stay at home mom and he worked when he came home I just wanted attension... and he started the same borded and the looks said it all then he did get around to teling me to shut up slowly over time I started talking less and less until one day I was sitting in a chair staring at the wall all day everyday, I filed for divorce and now Im free to talk as much as I want and its never to him. Women can fall into depression very easily when we dont get the attension we need and want from our spouse so be careful with how you look and talk to her. We talk about our apperence because we want to know you still find us sexy, we talk about our friends because we miss our best friend (hubby), the things we talk about the most is what is either causeing us the most pain or missing from our life. Marriage is about two becoming one so its not about you and its not about her its about you both, as women we often put off ourselves for the other and sometimes we need you to put off yourself and focus on her. This is called the seven yr itch so figure out what is causing the itch and scratch it so you can move on to yr 8,9, 10, 20 ect. Some things also depend on age, kids/no kids, biological clock ticking, hormones, goals, ect read some books on women about her age. Good luck
DearBubbie Mary - absolutely. You make an excellent point that I overlooked! Martha, I like that you always write from your heart. Thank you for sharing from your personal point of view.
Martha:
your welcome and this is my favorite page!
Kat:
Actually, I kind of sympathize with you. People who talk incessantly about nothing drive me insane. You've gotten a lot of good comments. Personally, I've broken up with a couple of friends in my lifetime over this same issue (talking a...bout coworkers constantly I had no interest in, talking about their own aesthetic until I thought I'd gag, etc.) I've also read a study that says that many people who talk constantly are actually afraid of intimacy. They use the chatter as a smoke screen to not let other people get too close. Could this be your wife? With the aforementioned friends, I tried steering the conversation to more personal levels on multiple occasions and got nowhere. I wanted to know more about who THEY were, what THEY thought, how THEY felt, not their idiotic coworkers. When I hit a dead end over and over again, I finally had to give the "It's not you, it's me," talk, and move on. Unfortuately, this is your wife. Get thee to counseling before it completely falls apart.
Michael R.:
Everyone (and I mean every one...especially Americans) needs to shut their yaps more often.We talk talk talk...about nothing.This is only one of SO many complaints I hear EXACTLY LIKE THIS on a weekly basis. Men of all ages lose so much att...raction for their wives because the first turn off for most men (yes, even more than weight gain) is BORDOM.Bordom, for a man, usually introduces itself by way of a woman's never-ending blather.I say this with love in the name of candor and potential understanding, Ladies.Say 25% less, and watch what happens.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul:
Paul:
wait a second*.....
Susanne:
Have you tried steering the conversation to something that interests you both...or finding something that interests the two of you. If there's something that bothers you, it's up to you to make an effort to make things better. Is your wife aware of the way you feel? If she doesn't know how you feel, she can't make any changes. Good luck
Janet:
Incessant, mindless chatter gets on my nerves, too...But, didn't she do this when you found her 'interesting'?
Paul:
Okay, I had to stop laughing.... You've been married 7 years? When was the last time you took the time to have a conversation with your wife? You say she talks too much about her appearance, have you noticed her lately? Complimented her on ...her looks/dress? And maybe she talks about her friends because she wants to involve you in her life.Get to know her again, look back 7 years to find what was interesting with you two to begin with! The worst thing you could do is tell your wife (or anyone just wanting to talk) to "shut up"! It sounds like she just wants you to have some interest in her life again! So, here's a KleenaxSee More
Paul:
...sorry, I had to stop laughing again, Kleenex tissue, wipe your tears, blow your nose, AND TAKE SOME TIME TO TALK/INVOLVE IN YOUR WIFE'S LAUGH! ps- And eat dinner alittle faster if you want a hot meal!
Ruben:
Buy her some ear rings, take her to dinner and then eat her potato salad. That'll do it.
Jan:
Good comment Janet. A lot of men love to talk on and on about their jobs, past and present and I know a lot of women listen and retain a lot of what is said...even if it is boring to them. I know personally that some of these same men wil...l then say of their partner's conversation exactly what this man said- "I don't know these people....I don't care about them"A successful relationship means that BOTH of you listen to the other.Maybe she won't talk so much if you actually show interest in what she is saying.
Deb:
two people have said it.....she was probably like this when you met and you found it.......charming?, helpful that she carried the conversation?..........figure out your shift first. Seems you two would have found that place of "easy silenc...e" by now. And she sounds nervous and insecure. So the comments about complimenting her are right on. Maybe it's time for a new hobby together. I was married for 15 years and I couldn't listen to my husband's drivel either after awhile....but had I known then what I know now, I would have done some couples workshops and gotten into who we both are so we could have some respect for our differences. I love the Enneagram for this.....we have a local group and it's not therapy, but rather self exploration.
Lisa:
You know the saying when you point your finger at someone there are three more pointing right back at you. Its not all her. She is desparate for you to engage in conversation and is just fishing around for a topic that you might want to t...alk about. Engage in active conversation with her. Ask questions, dig deeper, you might find that the conversations will become less about things that bore you and more about who she is as a person and what her views are on things and there will be different levels of conversation starting. I have been married 21 years- I have a vastly different hobby from my husband and frankly neither of us really care about the others hoby except that it makes us happy. We still listen to the other when we talk about what makes us happy even if it is boring and we have no freaking clue about what the other is talking about. And ya know what- eventually we learn quite a bit about the other's hobby, enough to hold a conversation and we each are very happy. Active conversation.
DearBubbie
If she's a talker where you can't even get a word in EDGEWISE - you need to tell her to stop a minute to breathe and also let you 'engage' in the conversation. I'm looking at the extreme, just in case that's the case. She would have to be ...told - NICELY. Otherwise, you need to step up to the plate and do some work. (That's why they say - marriage takes work; things don't always fall into place naturally.) You have to come up with topics - as has been advised. From talking about something in the newspaper, to an upcoming vacation to a tv show or movie or food! I let my husband talk about his Willy's Jeep and I've learned a LOT; but when it starts getting too technical, I make a joke and he 'gets it'. It does make me happy when he yammers on about it, though - because I know how happy it makes him. I'm sure he feels the same way about my tennis. But along with the 'boring' talk - there still needs to be a common ground that both can happily yammer on about together! ♥
Chris:
I am smiling and laughing too Paul, but for some different reasons. I care for my 92/93 year old Grandparents and they have been married 70 years. I know my Grandma listened intently to my Pop's interests and hobbies for most of those 70 ...years. Now she has mild dementia and has short term memory loss and Pop now has to listen to the same conversations over and over and over and over again on a daily basis. Karma works that way. Whenever I tell my Dad I feel bad for Pop he just smiles and says Pop is getting a bit of a payback.I agree with Deb too. Your wife was probably the same "conversationalist" when you met her, but the things that attracted you far outweighed that and you didn't notice. Time to take notice again of what attracted you in the first place. Marriages these days have "short term memory problems" when it comes to why we married our spouse to begin with.Good luck. Really, the laughter is not at you in my case, but smiling and laughing is how I deal with many of my stressors and I think you need to find some humor along with love in your situation. My husband comes home everyday from work and tells me stories about 4 or 5 coworkers. If I told him to Shut Up and that I didn't care, I don't think he would be very happy with me. Ya think??
Sara:
Sounds like you BOTH need to have a good long honest talk...and go back to the start....what got you together in the first place...turn off the phone, radio tv and go for a bike ride....a walk....listen to each other...find yourselfs again...get away from the everyday stress of life and reconnect
Michael A.
I hate to say it, but there are always three sides to a relationship story….his, hers and the real truth.Try looking hard in the mirror at yourself. Oftentimes you have more impact on a relationship by changing your methods/ways rather tha...n insisting on your partner being the one to change.Here are 23 Ways to Be the Man She Wants1. You can put down the weights and the protein shakes. You might want us to be perfect looking; we simply want you not to be fat. 2. Replace all of those hideous size-extra-large T-shirts with something that actually sort of fits. We think you might be a medium.3. Never allow anyone who listens to baseball on the radio to cut your hair.4. Purchase sheets that don't contain polyester and that are white.5. Blue Book value isn't everything. Take the money you were going to spend putting the backseat DVD theater in your Honda and buy a nice pair of shoes.6. We don't care what the plan is. Just have one.7. Candles. They are so cheap and they are so effective.8. When you give her a gift, include a card. You can spend less on the gift if you write something nice. Don't buy a card with a message in it, unless you're dating Danielle Steele.9. She arrives home from work eager for attention. You arrive home from work eager for several beers and the Simpsons-King of the Hill hour. The moment you come home, hug her, look into her eyes, and say that you're happy to see her. This simple gesture, done with sincerity, will earn you lots of time on the couch.10. Buy covered garbage cans for your kitchen and bathroom. They hide stuff we don't want to know about anyway.11. Make a list entitled "Intolerable Behavior from Women," and when you see it happening, speak up. Let us know you won't be around no matter what, and we'll want to keep you. 12. Drive a stick shift. Men look ineffectual driving automatics.13. Never utter the phrase, "I know I'm no Brad Pitt/Denzel Washington." You're a guy. Merely acting like you think you're hot makes you hot. Be grateful, because women actually have to be hot to be hot.14. Short sleeves are for golf only; sandals are for Jesus only.15. When a woman asks you to accompany her to a wedding or a family event, R.S.V.P. within 24 hours. If you find that you can't commit, do everyone a favor and break it off.16. Stop operating on the in-trouble/not-in-trouble paradigm. Just because we're not yelling at you doesn't mean everything is okay.17. If you're late, call.18. Brush your teeth a lot.19. Realize that if you "keep forgetting" to trim your nose hairs, we will "keep forgetting" to initiate sex.20. If your television is of a size such that it is regularly commented on, hide it in a cabinet. You might have a penchant for a) sloth, b) passivity, or c) tuning out the world, but she need not be reminded of this every time she walks into your living room.21. You might not know what she wants you to get her for her birthday, but her friends do. Ask them. 22. When we are together, sometimes we are occupied with tasks—closing a window, putting on a new CD, petting the cat—that cause us to focus our gaze elsewhere. May we suggest these windows of time as the most favorable for scratching your balls.23. Buy a Swiffer and use it. They come in dry (living room) and wet (kitchen and bathroom). Wash your dishes. Pick up your clothes. Swiff. She'll think you're a responsible adult.And, there are some other good reads at www.menshealth.com .
Mary:
You know I have come to this page today about 4 times, and left again because I really couldnt find the words to respond to this. Having counted to about 1000 I am ready to give this person some feed back.Maybe you just need to grow up and ...get to know the "friends you dont know and dont care about" Obviously they are important to her. You said I do... but dont care enough to know her friends? I have huge issues with that. Maybe she is talking because you are not talking to her and she wants conversation? I can almost guarantee your marriage is not going to last if you are tired and bored of your wife and want her to "shut up" all the timeSounds to me like you need to do your wife a favor and get some counseling. Not trying to be harsh,just honestHaving said that, I am sorry, but you obviously have a problem. Maybe its a medical problem like depression? You should consult with your doctor. I dont know how old you are, but maybe you are suffering from a midlife crisis? Seriously, go see your doc, make a date with the one you married, and take the time to care... it would probably work miraclesGoing back to my own page, apologizing ahead of time if my post is rude.. just giving honest feedback... what I love about this page...·
DearBubbie
I just remember one couple that my husband and I ate with at lunch. The woman talked NON-STOP and it was all 'nonsense'. Like she loved hearing the sound of her own voice. She was chewing and talking at the same time. We were ALL quiet -... because there was NO way we would be able to get a sentence in. She was very happy, her husband looked miserable, my husband was amused and I was frazzled. So - that scenario could be what's causing his 'reaction'. And the solution in that case - would be to let her know.
DearBubbie Another quick story. . .an older woman came in who was widowed. She said her husband told the same cow story to every acquaintance he would meet. She wanted to kill him if she heard the cow story one more time. When he passed, she said she'd give everything to hear the cow story again.
Mary:
But Bubbie... this guy said "Lately..." different?
Martha:
your wife knows how you feel thats why she keeps rambling. One day she will shut up and you will not hear her voice again, this is how my x husband was with me I was a stay at home mom and he worked when he came home I just wanted attension... and he started the same borded and the looks said it all then he did get around to teling me to shut up slowly over time I started talking less and less until one day I was sitting in a chair staring at the wall all day everyday, I filed for divorce and now Im free to talk as much as I want and its never to him. Women can fall into depression very easily when we dont get the attension we need and want from our spouse so be careful with how you look and talk to her. We talk about our apperence because we want to know you still find us sexy, we talk about our friends because we miss our best friend (hubby), the things we talk about the most is what is either causeing us the most pain or missing from our life. Marriage is about two becoming one so its not about you and its not about her its about you both, as women we often put off ourselves for the other and sometimes we need you to put off yourself and focus on her. This is called the seven yr itch so figure out what is causing the itch and scratch it so you can move on to yr 8,9, 10, 20 ect. Some things also depend on age, kids/no kids, biological clock ticking, hormones, goals, ect read some books on women about her age. Good luck
DearBubbie Mary - absolutely. You make an excellent point that I overlooked! Martha, I like that you always write from your heart. Thank you for sharing from your personal point of view.
Martha:
your welcome and this is my favorite page!
Kat:
Actually, I kind of sympathize with you. People who talk incessantly about nothing drive me insane. You've gotten a lot of good comments. Personally, I've broken up with a couple of friends in my lifetime over this same issue (talking a...bout coworkers constantly I had no interest in, talking about their own aesthetic until I thought I'd gag, etc.) I've also read a study that says that many people who talk constantly are actually afraid of intimacy. They use the chatter as a smoke screen to not let other people get too close. Could this be your wife? With the aforementioned friends, I tried steering the conversation to more personal levels on multiple occasions and got nowhere. I wanted to know more about who THEY were, what THEY thought, how THEY felt, not their idiotic coworkers. When I hit a dead end over and over again, I finally had to give the "It's not you, it's me," talk, and move on. Unfortuately, this is your wife. Get thee to counseling before it completely falls apart.
Michael R.:
Everyone (and I mean every one...especially Americans) needs to shut their yaps more often.We talk talk talk...about nothing.This is only one of SO many complaints I hear EXACTLY LIKE THIS on a weekly basis. Men of all ages lose so much att...raction for their wives because the first turn off for most men (yes, even more than weight gain) is BORDOM.Bordom, for a man, usually introduces itself by way of a woman's never-ending blather.I say this with love in the name of candor and potential understanding, Ladies.Say 25% less, and watch what happens.
Saturday, August 7, 2010
Creating a "So Ugly It's Cute" Baby
Sometimes a woman just knows these things.
After skipping two months, I felt a baby was on the way. No, not that kind of baby.
I just hadn't been inspired to pick up a brush and paint, so my blank wood figurines and unfinished furniture just sat there. My gesso was just too tired to swim its way from bottle to brush to bare wood. They were crying to be brought out into the world (okay, my shop) all shiny and new and colorful!
My penchant for painting these old neglected items in need of TLC came shortly after I met my husband-to-be, John. He introduced me to yard sales, which I initially scoffed at. However, if a stop at the donut shop was part of our Saturday morning excursion, I was in!
In no time at all, I went from not wanting to touch other people's 'stuff' to looking for signed and numbered insignias/stamps underneath figurines. I learned which watches and jewelry were a deal to discovering that even old license plates had value.
I was all about the resale.
But it was arts & crafts items and bare wood that made my heart skip a beat. Unfortunately, I'm not an artist, but that didn't stop me. My husband did try to put a halt to my spending: "We have a whole room full of junk. You'll never get around to painting it all!"
Not amused, I'd reply nastily, "It's two dollars! Just give me TWO DOLLARS!"
Despite some miscarriages of art, I was joyfully creating mismatched, non-sensical, so-ugly-they're-cute babies! Admittedly, I did want to ask for pain-numbing drugs when a color would kick me or a design gave me indigestion, but the most I did was aspirin (causing me to almost drink my paint water instead of my drinking water).
Then the unthinkable happened. A miracle! One of my babies sold!
The buyer was from Palm Beach Gardens, who always negotiated on artwork, but never bought anything. Tiresome haggling ended with him always saying: "I'll think about it."
When he eyed my table that I had marked for a preposterous $350.00, I immediately told him that I couldn't negotiate as it was a "one-of-a-kind" item.
"Who painted it?" he asked. Ugh - I was busted! My face turned a bright red, as I said with a faux confidence: "I did."
He bought the table that day at full price, but the phone rang two days later. I recognized his number on my caller ID and decided not to pick up. He was going to return it or it fell apart. Instead he left a message saying how nice it looked in the guestroom.
From that day forward, my husband never complained about me buying a blank piece of wood something-or-the-other again. And I stopped giving him the retaliatory eye roll when he'd buy a broken down rusted dirty piece of equipment that he'd be in disbelief over that he could get it for so cheap.
My children sit proudly at my shop greeting me when I open and waving goodbye at five o'clock. Sometimes people will pick them up and ooh and ahhh. Others will say, curiously: What is that?!?!
Who knows what will happen to my children as the years roll by. I hope they'll be cared for and dusted. However, I know that like so many 'finds' at yard sales, my kids may come full circle. And among the kitsch, my cat will be sitting on a fold-out table that someone will be fighting over with their husband: "It's ONLY two dollars! Give me $2.00!"
Tuesday, July 13, 2010
When is Comedy Offensive?
From our DearBubbie on Facebook Archives:
Dear Bubbie:
"I have a friend who jokes about EVERYTHING - nothing is off-limits. From the oil-spill to alzheimer's. He has lost several Facebook friends because of it. I'm offended by some of his jokes (others are truly funny, though). He said he doesn't mean any harm. Is he right or socially unacceptable? He does want to try Amateur Night at our local comedy club, so I don't want to discourage him."
Signed, A friend
__________________________________________________________________
Sarah
They are Jokes. Does he only joke about one particular subject or is everyone and everything an equal target for his jokes??I wouldn't be offended unless I felt he was targeting one group/sub-group. I've heard plenty of Jokes about these topics you mentioned, many were funny - some missed the mark. A bit of levity in a serious situation can make it all the easier to deal. I don't know that "he's right" but I certainly wouldn't call him socially unacceptable. If his personality is a mismatch to yours and some others than that is the way it is. That doesn't mean he's wrong or bad.Why are you offended by his jokes when you know they are simply jokes? Are the jokes very racist and demeaning or are they like a good ribbing that point out little truths? You need to be able to laugh at yourself and if you can't laugh at yourself don't blame him.
Sarah
btw, A Really good family friend that my husband and I have known since we were teenagers was always cracking jokes and telling stories. Well Now he is a Prime Time DJ in Northen California. We keep in touch often and its HILARIOUS to see all the new stuff he has come up with. How he can take the mundane, the sad, the gross, the taboo, or whatever else and make it accessible is amazing. Humour has that capacity, and I would not try to censor that... even if a few jokes rubbed wrong.
Sarah
Sorry - One more thought - The internet is a fickle friend at best. There is absolutely no way that I would ever suggest anyone change their style over the loss of a few online aquaintances even If I was one.
DearBubbie
Great points, Sarah. Joan Rivers has joked about suicide, even though that was the most difficult thing she ever dealt with. She also joked about 9/11 widows. She says humor is a defense mechanism in ways.
Sarah
Sure Is - About 10 Years ago I had a Miscarraige when I was 4 months pregnant - I laid in that hospital Bed Cracking Jokes. My husband and My Mother thought I was crazy. But if I had stopped laughing I would have crumbled. It's just how I managed to Cope until I felt comfortable to grieve."If We couldn't laugh, We would go insane"
Therese
As Abby Hoffman was known to say: Sacred cows make the best hamburger... Either it's all funny -- offensive, insensitive or not -- or nothing is.Humor is how we deal with tragedy, with life, with everything. The alternatives are despair and rage. Life is too short to be intolerant and laugh less. I have been told more times than I can count that I should try stand-up, and every time I hear that, or the sound of laughter (or ire) from someone who has listened to me rant, it validates my coping mechanism of choosing to see the humor in life despite the challenges and suffering and pain that is so apparent everywhere I look. Honestly, it keeps me sane. My thought is: encourage your friend and support him in his efforts. Nobody every died from laughter. There is good energy in that.
DearBubbie
Dear Friend, There is some comedy I simply don't like. Thus, I won't read it, listen to it; I'll change the channel, defriend, etc. . .but I would defend anyone's RIGHT to say whatever they want. If someone is NOT getting the response/reaction - I think that would encourage them into going into a different direction. But it seems that just like there are different types of people, there are different types of comedy that will have an appreciative audience. I would be an honest critic with my friend - if you don't like a joke, don't laugh. If you're offended, let him know. But, it's ultimately HIS choice what comes out of his mouth. I didn't like Howard Stern for the longest time. But did like his movie and book.
Lisa
America has become the land of the offended. It is the intent behind the words that is more important than the words themselves. "four letter words" and other offensive words have only become so due to society attaching a deeper or alternative meaning. They are just words. I tell blonde jokes all the time to my blonde daughter (who is 14 this month) and she thinks they are funny. Why -because she knows the intent behind the jokes. As for your friend- if it doesnt bother him that he is loosing friends why it is bothering you? If you are offended by a certain joke tell him and move on. Life is too short to be worried about jokes.
Kate
I wish we could all laugh at each other a little more. I’ve often said, “If you can’t laugh at your friends, who can you laugh at?” We all need more humor in our lives!
Philip
I don't understand people who are always offended. I don't grasp the context. Either something is in good taste or bad taste and that depends upon each persons tastebuds. I find people who are always "offended" don't seem to like very much. Am I wrong?
DearBubbie
You know what I just thought about. . sometimes the things that I feel are the most HARMLESS posts or words, can cause the most controversy and offense. I have never been a fan of put-down humor - I feel it can be passive-aggressive - but one DOES need to laugh at oneself. No, you are NOT wrong, BubbaBubbie Phil. How about this? When we may
tell a joke and someone gets upset. You tell them you didn't mean it THAT way, and they say: "Oh YES you did!!!" Those are the people I don't like very much. . .
Michael R.
I am usually the first to stand up AGAINST "political correctness", as I feel it has gone too far and has replaced common sense in the arena of humor and general conversation.As adults especially, I don't feel we need anyone policing our language.
That said, I know there are a plenty of goofballs out there who have no sense of what's appropriate, funny or risque. I don't know if your friend falls in the latter category, but if he does, I would probably de-Friend him on FB too. As for him taking his show to the stage, that's for only him to decide. If he's funny, the audience will let him know...immediately. If he's not, he will probably leave the stage and re-evaluate his schtick. I have a friend who is just borish and loud, who thinks he's hilarious. Everyone around him knows he's not, and the result is that he finds himself alone most of the time.If a person can't figure out what's socially acceptable or offensive by the time they reach adulthood, they don't deserve the company of others.Period.
Chris:
I have to agree with Michael on most of this whole issue. I will give you a personal example. My 19 year old step daughter's new Father in Law decided it was fun to send "pornagraphic" type joke text messages to my husband (his Daughter's FIL, for crying out loud... who she is living in the same house with) After the second one, that offended him enough to show me and ask me what he should do, he decided to just send a message back that just said, "please do not text me any porn jokes or pics on my phone." Instead of an apology or even just an ok... the FIL's reply was, "some people just can't take a joke."
Now granted, there are probably some people that were happy to get his little "joke" sent to their phones. My husband is not one of them. Second of all, he worked at a college around young girls where if that joke were accidentally forwarded or seen on his phone, it could have cost him his job. Thirdly and most importantly, it was offensive to a man who has ONE child, an only daughter, who is respectful of women... and it concerned him with who she was living with. This FIL hardly knew us, and yet in his mind it was an appropriate joke.
And then WE were the ones that offended him when we said something negative about it. Not only was this the start of "defriending" type activity... the FIL made it a wedge between my husband and his daughter (who again lives in this household with her new husband).My husband has an excellent sense of humor, but very rarely does he use any "foul" language to tell a joke or to be funny. Sometimes his stories or jokes are not that funny.... to me... but that is ok, we understand each other! Like Michael says, there are so many people out there that just don't have any idea that they are inappropriate. There is a time and a place... and some things are better off not being joked about. I like his suggestion.... go for a night on stage and see how funny this person really is.
DearBubbie
Excellent, Michael! I knew someone like that as well. . the key word being "knew". I personally have been sensitive to jokes regarding the oil spill. There's nothing funny, in my opinion, about the suffering that is taking place due to greed. Then, I heard this joke today: "They figured out a way to stop the oil spill!" Me: "Oh no, is this a joke?" Him: No joke. They're going to clamp a wedding ring on the pipe so it won't 'put out' anymore." (I thought that was funny. . .)
Deb
laughing at everything is called deflection....one is never engaged in the moment, he is always defecting away from real feelings. It's hard to ever take this person seriously, so they do it in a hurtful manner that really gets your attention. Toxic.
Robb
Laughter is good for the soul... Even if your friend's jokes don't always 'hit the mark,' at least the effort to LIVE, LOVE and LAUGH is part of their life! Take note (and don't take it ALL so seriously!)~~~Sometimes the laughter keeps you (or them) from crying! Other times, you GOTTA laugh to keep from cryin'!
Therese
wow. trying not to take a post too seriously. but it ain't easy...of the many things that have been said to me about my sense of humor (or about funny people or humor in general), which is the frame through which i personally choose to view even the most dire circumstances (and including, of course, the most appropriately joyful and legitimately humorous) i have NEVER been called toxic or told my humor (or that having a sense of humor in general) was toxic. i have NEVER been told -- even by therapists and medical professionals in the field of psychology or psychiatry -- that i was "deflecting".
if anything, i embrace every moment of life and thus my humor flows.my personal brand of humor is IN RESPONSE TO the moment and stems from embracing my "real feelings". my humor, (and the humor i witness in general), doesn't denigrate, but rather it uplifts energy, illuminates, illustrates, bonds together. when people can laugh together it establishes a common ground. i would submit you should interact with funny people on a personal level before you write us all off as toxic. abusers are toxic. alcoholics are toxic. crack-heads are toxic. liars and thieves are toxic. buddy cracking a joke about a situation or life experience or political gaffe or the dang oil spill, as tragic and horrible as THAT is, is trying to bring levity. more light less heat. that sort of thing.like i said before life is too short to not laugh. hope you share some good ones today with folks who make you smile my friends. peace out.
DearBubbie
I love my retail neighbor (the other one). . .he always laughs like I've told the funniest joke in the world. His reactions actually catch me off guard, because I didn't think the jokes were that funny. :-0
Chris
I came back to read through this thread again including what Therese just posted. I think everyone has valid points. Just my opinion Therese... the humor you describe yourself having (and knowing some of your background from earlier Bubbie posts) is much different than someone that is obnoxious with their humor. I think Deb's post was geared towards that kind of jokester... maybe I am wrong, but with a written post sometimes things get read out of context. The reaction you are having to that post is similar to a reaction someone else may have of a distasteful joke.
I have encountered a few people that I would have to agree with Deb on. They are obnoxious, toxic, distasteful...all of the above. But I have many friends with tremendous humor and they find humor in everything, that I absolutely adore and laugh at just about anything they put out! Now, if we look at sarah's example, when she miscarried. Laughter got her through it and made the pain bearable. BUT, what if another person was making those same jokes towards Sarah about her miscarriage? Even the same exact words that were coming out of Sarah's mouth?? I don't think anyone would find that funny. And , you know what... there are people like that, and Deb is right... they can be toxic.
I have to be careful with my sense of humor (inherited from my Dad) as I sometimes have a very dry and "sarcastic" type of humor. Somebody that didn't know me well might think I was being mean to someone that I was joking with. I only use that humor with people that know me very well. There is a time and a place for jokes.The kind of jokes I really hate.... ethnic, hateful towards ANY president, fat jokes, and demeaning towards women or children.... thus I really hate the whole Howard Stern thing. My ex used to watch that show and just hearing that man's voice could turn my stomach and I would leave the room.
We had a thread recently on a woman that was offended by a comment made about blacks. How many of you get emailed jokes that are racial, judge mental against Mexicans, crude jokes about the President, etc and you pass them around? Me... I will usually brush off jokes like that to poor taste and most of the time delete them before I get past the first sentence. Everyone has the right in this country to have opinions about All of those things... but do we really need to pass around demeaning jokes? Having a sense of humor about everyday life and the stresses we are challenged with is a wonderful thing and I wish everyone had it. Most of the time, reading posts on here makes me smile and if something doesn't sit right with me, I look at myself first and ask why.Learning to laugh at ourselves is the best medicine."The person who knows how to laugh at himself will never cease to be amused." ~Shirley Maclaine
DearBubbie
Actually, I'd like a specific example from Deb. Deb - are you there? I'm wondering if you're talking about the kind of jokes I mentioned: Passive aggressive. Actually, Deb is stating a fact that is in psych books, not an opinion, I believe.
Therese
I guess my point is this: i totally respect and understand deb's position, textbook-based or opinion, which is why i responded to it. i don't have to agree with folks to want a dialogue with them, in most cases, the more i disagree, the more i learn from the source. to speak to that, deb's post drove me to look up deflection as psychological theory -- it's gestalt theory, very interesting with that said, her post did provoke some feelings within me that are defensive in nature. theories applied generally scare me, or, as pooh would say "big words bother me" -- even if the applicant is a trained professional. i'm just not one to paint with a big brush and it kinda makes me nervous when i experience it. it's just my nature. it was not meant to personal (other than to me). if it was taken so, i humbly apologize.
i also totally respect and understand chris' position and insight to the dialogue, and i agree. with all THAT said, i return to my original point of sacred cows and hamburgers. either it's all funny or humor is dead. there is even a South Park episode about this, for what THAT is worth in legitimizing my point further. humor is largely personal and like any other expression occurring outside one's head, bound to offend someone. i personally don't agree with larry flynt (hustler magazine) or howard stern (most of the time) or, egad, bubba the love sponge; but i loved lenny bruce and richard pryor and george carlin and eddie murphy and a ton of other comics who in general offended a lot of folks... that's my point, which DearBubbie made earlier, if you don't like it, turn it off -- don't hate or try to define or criticize it or judge it or silence it -- leave it for what it is. what is offensive to one person is hilarious to someone else.with all that said: yay! i'm smarter now thanks to deb because i learned something today. thanks for that. peaceout.
DearBubbie
Oh my gosh, Therese. .I am constantly learning and googling things to get more information from posts that compel me - either negatively or positively. NICE NICE that you explained yourself so there is no misunderstanding that this was personal against Deb. I hear ya and AGREE!
Deb
no offense taken! I think it is key to happiness to be able to laugh at oneself and not take everything so seriously. The way I read the post was this poking fun is non-stop and indiscriminate. This can be hurtful, but when one says so, then it's your fault for taking it the "wrong way". Socially intelligent people know when to joke and when to be empathic. This person sounds like he has no filter. I conclude he has a problem.
Simon
Hmm... what would I say? I say peesha, throw caution to the wind, Damn the torpedos! Talk to him about the offensive ones that you find offensive, maybe he needs to polish those to be more general and less direct?
Dear Bubbie:
"I have a friend who jokes about EVERYTHING - nothing is off-limits. From the oil-spill to alzheimer's. He has lost several Facebook friends because of it. I'm offended by some of his jokes (others are truly funny, though). He said he doesn't mean any harm. Is he right or socially unacceptable? He does want to try Amateur Night at our local comedy club, so I don't want to discourage him."
Signed, A friend
__________________________________________________________________
Sarah
They are Jokes. Does he only joke about one particular subject or is everyone and everything an equal target for his jokes??I wouldn't be offended unless I felt he was targeting one group/sub-group. I've heard plenty of Jokes about these topics you mentioned, many were funny - some missed the mark. A bit of levity in a serious situation can make it all the easier to deal. I don't know that "he's right" but I certainly wouldn't call him socially unacceptable. If his personality is a mismatch to yours and some others than that is the way it is. That doesn't mean he's wrong or bad.Why are you offended by his jokes when you know they are simply jokes? Are the jokes very racist and demeaning or are they like a good ribbing that point out little truths? You need to be able to laugh at yourself and if you can't laugh at yourself don't blame him.
Sarah
btw, A Really good family friend that my husband and I have known since we were teenagers was always cracking jokes and telling stories. Well Now he is a Prime Time DJ in Northen California. We keep in touch often and its HILARIOUS to see all the new stuff he has come up with. How he can take the mundane, the sad, the gross, the taboo, or whatever else and make it accessible is amazing. Humour has that capacity, and I would not try to censor that... even if a few jokes rubbed wrong.
Sarah
Sorry - One more thought - The internet is a fickle friend at best. There is absolutely no way that I would ever suggest anyone change their style over the loss of a few online aquaintances even If I was one.
DearBubbie
Great points, Sarah. Joan Rivers has joked about suicide, even though that was the most difficult thing she ever dealt with. She also joked about 9/11 widows. She says humor is a defense mechanism in ways.
Sarah
Sure Is - About 10 Years ago I had a Miscarraige when I was 4 months pregnant - I laid in that hospital Bed Cracking Jokes. My husband and My Mother thought I was crazy. But if I had stopped laughing I would have crumbled. It's just how I managed to Cope until I felt comfortable to grieve."If We couldn't laugh, We would go insane"
Therese
As Abby Hoffman was known to say: Sacred cows make the best hamburger... Either it's all funny -- offensive, insensitive or not -- or nothing is.Humor is how we deal with tragedy, with life, with everything. The alternatives are despair and rage. Life is too short to be intolerant and laugh less. I have been told more times than I can count that I should try stand-up, and every time I hear that, or the sound of laughter (or ire) from someone who has listened to me rant, it validates my coping mechanism of choosing to see the humor in life despite the challenges and suffering and pain that is so apparent everywhere I look. Honestly, it keeps me sane. My thought is: encourage your friend and support him in his efforts. Nobody every died from laughter. There is good energy in that.
DearBubbie
Dear Friend, There is some comedy I simply don't like. Thus, I won't read it, listen to it; I'll change the channel, defriend, etc. . .but I would defend anyone's RIGHT to say whatever they want. If someone is NOT getting the response/reaction - I think that would encourage them into going into a different direction. But it seems that just like there are different types of people, there are different types of comedy that will have an appreciative audience. I would be an honest critic with my friend - if you don't like a joke, don't laugh. If you're offended, let him know. But, it's ultimately HIS choice what comes out of his mouth. I didn't like Howard Stern for the longest time. But did like his movie and book.
Lisa
America has become the land of the offended. It is the intent behind the words that is more important than the words themselves. "four letter words" and other offensive words have only become so due to society attaching a deeper or alternative meaning. They are just words. I tell blonde jokes all the time to my blonde daughter (who is 14 this month) and she thinks they are funny. Why -because she knows the intent behind the jokes. As for your friend- if it doesnt bother him that he is loosing friends why it is bothering you? If you are offended by a certain joke tell him and move on. Life is too short to be worried about jokes.
Kate
I wish we could all laugh at each other a little more. I’ve often said, “If you can’t laugh at your friends, who can you laugh at?” We all need more humor in our lives!
Philip
I don't understand people who are always offended. I don't grasp the context. Either something is in good taste or bad taste and that depends upon each persons tastebuds. I find people who are always "offended" don't seem to like very much. Am I wrong?
DearBubbie
You know what I just thought about. . sometimes the things that I feel are the most HARMLESS posts or words, can cause the most controversy and offense. I have never been a fan of put-down humor - I feel it can be passive-aggressive - but one DOES need to laugh at oneself. No, you are NOT wrong, BubbaBubbie Phil. How about this? When we may
tell a joke and someone gets upset. You tell them you didn't mean it THAT way, and they say: "Oh YES you did!!!" Those are the people I don't like very much. . .
Michael R.
I am usually the first to stand up AGAINST "political correctness", as I feel it has gone too far and has replaced common sense in the arena of humor and general conversation.As adults especially, I don't feel we need anyone policing our language.
That said, I know there are a plenty of goofballs out there who have no sense of what's appropriate, funny or risque. I don't know if your friend falls in the latter category, but if he does, I would probably de-Friend him on FB too. As for him taking his show to the stage, that's for only him to decide. If he's funny, the audience will let him know...immediately. If he's not, he will probably leave the stage and re-evaluate his schtick. I have a friend who is just borish and loud, who thinks he's hilarious. Everyone around him knows he's not, and the result is that he finds himself alone most of the time.If a person can't figure out what's socially acceptable or offensive by the time they reach adulthood, they don't deserve the company of others.Period.
Chris:
I have to agree with Michael on most of this whole issue. I will give you a personal example. My 19 year old step daughter's new Father in Law decided it was fun to send "pornagraphic" type joke text messages to my husband (his Daughter's FIL, for crying out loud... who she is living in the same house with) After the second one, that offended him enough to show me and ask me what he should do, he decided to just send a message back that just said, "please do not text me any porn jokes or pics on my phone." Instead of an apology or even just an ok... the FIL's reply was, "some people just can't take a joke."
Now granted, there are probably some people that were happy to get his little "joke" sent to their phones. My husband is not one of them. Second of all, he worked at a college around young girls where if that joke were accidentally forwarded or seen on his phone, it could have cost him his job. Thirdly and most importantly, it was offensive to a man who has ONE child, an only daughter, who is respectful of women... and it concerned him with who she was living with. This FIL hardly knew us, and yet in his mind it was an appropriate joke.
And then WE were the ones that offended him when we said something negative about it. Not only was this the start of "defriending" type activity... the FIL made it a wedge between my husband and his daughter (who again lives in this household with her new husband).My husband has an excellent sense of humor, but very rarely does he use any "foul" language to tell a joke or to be funny. Sometimes his stories or jokes are not that funny.... to me... but that is ok, we understand each other! Like Michael says, there are so many people out there that just don't have any idea that they are inappropriate. There is a time and a place... and some things are better off not being joked about. I like his suggestion.... go for a night on stage and see how funny this person really is.
DearBubbie
Excellent, Michael! I knew someone like that as well. . the key word being "knew". I personally have been sensitive to jokes regarding the oil spill. There's nothing funny, in my opinion, about the suffering that is taking place due to greed. Then, I heard this joke today: "They figured out a way to stop the oil spill!" Me: "Oh no, is this a joke?" Him: No joke. They're going to clamp a wedding ring on the pipe so it won't 'put out' anymore." (I thought that was funny. . .)
Deb
laughing at everything is called deflection....one is never engaged in the moment, he is always defecting away from real feelings. It's hard to ever take this person seriously, so they do it in a hurtful manner that really gets your attention. Toxic.
Robb
Laughter is good for the soul... Even if your friend's jokes don't always 'hit the mark,' at least the effort to LIVE, LOVE and LAUGH is part of their life! Take note (and don't take it ALL so seriously!)~~~Sometimes the laughter keeps you (or them) from crying! Other times, you GOTTA laugh to keep from cryin'!
Therese
wow. trying not to take a post too seriously. but it ain't easy...of the many things that have been said to me about my sense of humor (or about funny people or humor in general), which is the frame through which i personally choose to view even the most dire circumstances (and including, of course, the most appropriately joyful and legitimately humorous) i have NEVER been called toxic or told my humor (or that having a sense of humor in general) was toxic. i have NEVER been told -- even by therapists and medical professionals in the field of psychology or psychiatry -- that i was "deflecting".
if anything, i embrace every moment of life and thus my humor flows.my personal brand of humor is IN RESPONSE TO the moment and stems from embracing my "real feelings". my humor, (and the humor i witness in general), doesn't denigrate, but rather it uplifts energy, illuminates, illustrates, bonds together. when people can laugh together it establishes a common ground. i would submit you should interact with funny people on a personal level before you write us all off as toxic. abusers are toxic. alcoholics are toxic. crack-heads are toxic. liars and thieves are toxic. buddy cracking a joke about a situation or life experience or political gaffe or the dang oil spill, as tragic and horrible as THAT is, is trying to bring levity. more light less heat. that sort of thing.like i said before life is too short to not laugh. hope you share some good ones today with folks who make you smile my friends. peace out.
DearBubbie
I love my retail neighbor (the other one). . .he always laughs like I've told the funniest joke in the world. His reactions actually catch me off guard, because I didn't think the jokes were that funny. :-0
Chris
I came back to read through this thread again including what Therese just posted. I think everyone has valid points. Just my opinion Therese... the humor you describe yourself having (and knowing some of your background from earlier Bubbie posts) is much different than someone that is obnoxious with their humor. I think Deb's post was geared towards that kind of jokester... maybe I am wrong, but with a written post sometimes things get read out of context. The reaction you are having to that post is similar to a reaction someone else may have of a distasteful joke.
I have encountered a few people that I would have to agree with Deb on. They are obnoxious, toxic, distasteful...all of the above. But I have many friends with tremendous humor and they find humor in everything, that I absolutely adore and laugh at just about anything they put out! Now, if we look at sarah's example, when she miscarried. Laughter got her through it and made the pain bearable. BUT, what if another person was making those same jokes towards Sarah about her miscarriage? Even the same exact words that were coming out of Sarah's mouth?? I don't think anyone would find that funny. And , you know what... there are people like that, and Deb is right... they can be toxic.
I have to be careful with my sense of humor (inherited from my Dad) as I sometimes have a very dry and "sarcastic" type of humor. Somebody that didn't know me well might think I was being mean to someone that I was joking with. I only use that humor with people that know me very well. There is a time and a place for jokes.The kind of jokes I really hate.... ethnic, hateful towards ANY president, fat jokes, and demeaning towards women or children.... thus I really hate the whole Howard Stern thing. My ex used to watch that show and just hearing that man's voice could turn my stomach and I would leave the room.
We had a thread recently on a woman that was offended by a comment made about blacks. How many of you get emailed jokes that are racial, judge mental against Mexicans, crude jokes about the President, etc and you pass them around? Me... I will usually brush off jokes like that to poor taste and most of the time delete them before I get past the first sentence. Everyone has the right in this country to have opinions about All of those things... but do we really need to pass around demeaning jokes? Having a sense of humor about everyday life and the stresses we are challenged with is a wonderful thing and I wish everyone had it. Most of the time, reading posts on here makes me smile and if something doesn't sit right with me, I look at myself first and ask why.Learning to laugh at ourselves is the best medicine."The person who knows how to laugh at himself will never cease to be amused." ~Shirley Maclaine
DearBubbie
Actually, I'd like a specific example from Deb. Deb - are you there? I'm wondering if you're talking about the kind of jokes I mentioned: Passive aggressive. Actually, Deb is stating a fact that is in psych books, not an opinion, I believe.
Therese
I guess my point is this: i totally respect and understand deb's position, textbook-based or opinion, which is why i responded to it. i don't have to agree with folks to want a dialogue with them, in most cases, the more i disagree, the more i learn from the source. to speak to that, deb's post drove me to look up deflection as psychological theory -- it's gestalt theory, very interesting with that said, her post did provoke some feelings within me that are defensive in nature. theories applied generally scare me, or, as pooh would say "big words bother me" -- even if the applicant is a trained professional. i'm just not one to paint with a big brush and it kinda makes me nervous when i experience it. it's just my nature. it was not meant to personal (other than to me). if it was taken so, i humbly apologize.
i also totally respect and understand chris' position and insight to the dialogue, and i agree. with all THAT said, i return to my original point of sacred cows and hamburgers. either it's all funny or humor is dead. there is even a South Park episode about this, for what THAT is worth in legitimizing my point further. humor is largely personal and like any other expression occurring outside one's head, bound to offend someone. i personally don't agree with larry flynt (hustler magazine) or howard stern (most of the time) or, egad, bubba the love sponge; but i loved lenny bruce and richard pryor and george carlin and eddie murphy and a ton of other comics who in general offended a lot of folks... that's my point, which DearBubbie made earlier, if you don't like it, turn it off -- don't hate or try to define or criticize it or judge it or silence it -- leave it for what it is. what is offensive to one person is hilarious to someone else.with all that said: yay! i'm smarter now thanks to deb because i learned something today. thanks for that. peaceout.
DearBubbie
Oh my gosh, Therese. .I am constantly learning and googling things to get more information from posts that compel me - either negatively or positively. NICE NICE that you explained yourself so there is no misunderstanding that this was personal against Deb. I hear ya and AGREE!
Deb
no offense taken! I think it is key to happiness to be able to laugh at oneself and not take everything so seriously. The way I read the post was this poking fun is non-stop and indiscriminate. This can be hurtful, but when one says so, then it's your fault for taking it the "wrong way". Socially intelligent people know when to joke and when to be empathic. This person sounds like he has no filter. I conclude he has a problem.
Simon
Hmm... what would I say? I say peesha, throw caution to the wind, Damn the torpedos! Talk to him about the offensive ones that you find offensive, maybe he needs to polish those to be more general and less direct?
Sunday, June 27, 2010
Strong Perfume in the Workplace. Make it STOP!
Dear Bubbie:
You were referred to me by a friend who is on Facebook. I hope you can help our entire office (of five women, two men) out. We have a co-worker who has always worn a lot of perfume. Two months ago, there was one day when it seemed she had on more perfume than usual.
Unfortunately, two women confronted her, she got defensive and it turned nasty with everyone. One of the employees then went into the boss - who has his OWN office, and he said he likes it. Our office just has one huge window in the front that doesn't open and, of course, the door. I take aspirin. And forget about eating lunch in our little lunchroom when she walks through. We all feel like she only cares about herself at the detriment of others' well-being in the workplace. Our boss isn't the confrontational type and he does like that woman. She's kind of a Jeckyl/Hyde. Any suggestions other than quitting? Robbie
Lisa
If you complain your boss must do something about or he is liable. It is that simple. He cannot just brush off your complaints. All of you need to lodge a complaint so that he sees it is not just one of you but all of you w/a problem. You might also want to consider putting it in writing. Word it appropriately non-judgemental (leave out the Jeckly/Hyde comment and the we feel she only cares about herself comment) More likeDear Mr.BossmanPlease be aware that many of us in our office are having some issues with Mrs Perfumes habit of wearing an overabundant amount of cologne. While the purfume is pleasant smelling in the beginning, it quickly becomes overwhelming in its intensity. Many of us are having negative physical reactions including severe headaches that if they continue might cause some of us to seek medical attention. Please be advised that we have attempted to discuss this with Mrs. Perfume on other occasions with no success and the resulting hard feelings were uncomfortable in our small office. We are requesting that you please speak with her about her cologne habit and ask that she either apply less or refrain from wearing any at all 'sincerely, oh my god whats that smell'. Keep a copy you may need it later. You also may need to request a fragrance free work place. It happens all the time. Good luck
DearBubbie
Excellent, Lisa!
Lisa
Thank you. One of the capacities I work in for my hubby is as human resource person. I have done a number of the unemployment interviews, and I use to be a vocational rehabilitation counselor- so have a working knowlege of employee rights regs and I supervised three different locations of an adult day care so I had to deal with similar stuff from employees. As an employer you just cannot ignore it when someone comes and says they have a physical reaction to something another employee is doing - like smoking or body odor of any kind. You can just go and talk to the boss but putting it in writing (since he has ignored you the first time) Covers your butt. You have proof that you sent something. Email is great for this because there is a time date/stamp on it, but I would email and then hard copy if the email doesnt get you anywhere.
Maria
well, said Lisa!!! it's hard to tell people these things and them not get defensive, i was a supervisor at one point inmy life and when my people came to me, with problems such as these it was hard to do but, i address them in a way not to offend anyone, it took a bit of work but, enough of that. Just well said Lisa and they should follow her advice.
David
One of the first early warning signs of Alzheimer's Disease is a decrease in sense of smell. Since men don't normally wear a ton of cologne (unless they're in high school and bathe in the latest version of "Axe"), it's not as prevalent. In women however, it is because they apply perfume until they can smell it, which means you and I can smell it 3 miles away. The study I'm referring to( http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/75986.php )Also mentions Parkinson's Disease as a possibility. In all seriousness if this woman is older (over 40), someone might want to suggest a visit to the doctor. Those nice old ladies in church that wear the stuff that seems to so thick you could eat it with a fork..........might be dealing with something far worse than they know.As for the co-worker becoming upset, I think the approach might be the cause. Instead of being harsh with her about it, perhaps a quiet off to the side conversation would have been better, explaining both the problem, and the concerns.
DearBubbie
Less is more.
Maria
i forgot one good point if you like to smell your own perfume, put a tiny dab under your own nose!
Michelle
I would ask her what kind of perfume she's wearing. More than likely she's going to ask if you like it and at that time take the opportunity to say, "Well, not really ... but if smells similar to something my Granny wears" or something like that. She will probably be embarassed and stop wearing it..if not you must write a letter to the Bongo in charge..You wouldn't light up a smoke in a oxygen tent or in the presence of a person with bronchitis or asthma, right? too much strong smell has that same effect on a person with a breathing problem, asthma, or migraines.
Chris
I grew up with asthma... nuff said. I detest most perfumes. There are some mild, earthy, fruity type smells that don't attack me! Vanilla is my favorite. In a workplace it is rude to wear strong perfumes like that and it may turn off customers. As an owner/boss of my own business, I had a no smoking/no perfume policy. There were a few girls that thought it was a silly rule, but your letter reinforces to me that it was the right thing to do. ESPECIALLY, since my business was a restaurant. Perfumes also change the taste of food. So if you are going out to a romantic dinner and think perfume might be nice, add it to your neck, ears or where ever, after the meal... maybe in the restroom as you are getting ready to leave.
Sara
Be careful what you wish for - You may prefer the strong perfume over the smell she is attempting to cover up. :)
You were referred to me by a friend who is on Facebook. I hope you can help our entire office (of five women, two men) out. We have a co-worker who has always worn a lot of perfume. Two months ago, there was one day when it seemed she had on more perfume than usual.
Unfortunately, two women confronted her, she got defensive and it turned nasty with everyone. One of the employees then went into the boss - who has his OWN office, and he said he likes it. Our office just has one huge window in the front that doesn't open and, of course, the door. I take aspirin. And forget about eating lunch in our little lunchroom when she walks through. We all feel like she only cares about herself at the detriment of others' well-being in the workplace. Our boss isn't the confrontational type and he does like that woman. She's kind of a Jeckyl/Hyde. Any suggestions other than quitting? Robbie
Lisa
If you complain your boss must do something about or he is liable. It is that simple. He cannot just brush off your complaints. All of you need to lodge a complaint so that he sees it is not just one of you but all of you w/a problem. You might also want to consider putting it in writing. Word it appropriately non-judgemental (leave out the Jeckly/Hyde comment and the we feel she only cares about herself comment) More likeDear Mr.BossmanPlease be aware that many of us in our office are having some issues with Mrs Perfumes habit of wearing an overabundant amount of cologne. While the purfume is pleasant smelling in the beginning, it quickly becomes overwhelming in its intensity. Many of us are having negative physical reactions including severe headaches that if they continue might cause some of us to seek medical attention. Please be advised that we have attempted to discuss this with Mrs. Perfume on other occasions with no success and the resulting hard feelings were uncomfortable in our small office. We are requesting that you please speak with her about her cologne habit and ask that she either apply less or refrain from wearing any at all 'sincerely, oh my god whats that smell'. Keep a copy you may need it later. You also may need to request a fragrance free work place. It happens all the time. Good luck
DearBubbie
Excellent, Lisa!
Lisa
Thank you. One of the capacities I work in for my hubby is as human resource person. I have done a number of the unemployment interviews, and I use to be a vocational rehabilitation counselor- so have a working knowlege of employee rights regs and I supervised three different locations of an adult day care so I had to deal with similar stuff from employees. As an employer you just cannot ignore it when someone comes and says they have a physical reaction to something another employee is doing - like smoking or body odor of any kind. You can just go and talk to the boss but putting it in writing (since he has ignored you the first time) Covers your butt. You have proof that you sent something. Email is great for this because there is a time date/stamp on it, but I would email and then hard copy if the email doesnt get you anywhere.
Maria
well, said Lisa!!! it's hard to tell people these things and them not get defensive, i was a supervisor at one point inmy life and when my people came to me, with problems such as these it was hard to do but, i address them in a way not to offend anyone, it took a bit of work but, enough of that. Just well said Lisa and they should follow her advice.
David
One of the first early warning signs of Alzheimer's Disease is a decrease in sense of smell. Since men don't normally wear a ton of cologne (unless they're in high school and bathe in the latest version of "Axe"), it's not as prevalent. In women however, it is because they apply perfume until they can smell it, which means you and I can smell it 3 miles away. The study I'm referring to( http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/75986.php )Also mentions Parkinson's Disease as a possibility. In all seriousness if this woman is older (over 40), someone might want to suggest a visit to the doctor. Those nice old ladies in church that wear the stuff that seems to so thick you could eat it with a fork..........might be dealing with something far worse than they know.As for the co-worker becoming upset, I think the approach might be the cause. Instead of being harsh with her about it, perhaps a quiet off to the side conversation would have been better, explaining both the problem, and the concerns.
DearBubbie
Less is more.
Maria
i forgot one good point if you like to smell your own perfume, put a tiny dab under your own nose!
Michelle
I would ask her what kind of perfume she's wearing. More than likely she's going to ask if you like it and at that time take the opportunity to say, "Well, not really ... but if smells similar to something my Granny wears" or something like that. She will probably be embarassed and stop wearing it..if not you must write a letter to the Bongo in charge..You wouldn't light up a smoke in a oxygen tent or in the presence of a person with bronchitis or asthma, right? too much strong smell has that same effect on a person with a breathing problem, asthma, or migraines.
Chris
I grew up with asthma... nuff said. I detest most perfumes. There are some mild, earthy, fruity type smells that don't attack me! Vanilla is my favorite. In a workplace it is rude to wear strong perfumes like that and it may turn off customers. As an owner/boss of my own business, I had a no smoking/no perfume policy. There were a few girls that thought it was a silly rule, but your letter reinforces to me that it was the right thing to do. ESPECIALLY, since my business was a restaurant. Perfumes also change the taste of food. So if you are going out to a romantic dinner and think perfume might be nice, add it to your neck, ears or where ever, after the meal... maybe in the restroom as you are getting ready to leave.
Sara
Be careful what you wish for - You may prefer the strong perfume over the smell she is attempting to cover up. :)
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